GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Climate of Culture, with Utku Güven and Samuel Rubin
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Climate progress is not blocked by a lack of science, it is blocked by the stories we tell, about what matters and who belongs.
In this episode we sit down with Samuel Rubin, co-founder of Entertainment + Culture Pavilion, and Utku Güven, co-founder of Esmiyor, a purpose-driven design studio, to make the case that culture isn't adjacent to climate policy; it is a delivery system for climate action.
We unpack the Global Stocktake under the Paris Agreement and why it took so long for the world to state the obvious about fossil fuels. From there, we dig into the Culture Global Stocktake: a decentralised, collaborative effort to address the “cultural gap” in climate frameworks and to show how arts, entertainment, cultural heritage, and creative industries connect to mitigation, adaptation, finance, and capacity building.
Along the way we talk climate communication, misinformation, polarisation, and shifting narratives and then we get practical. Heatwaves are a clear example of climate risk, and cultural infrastructure can help cities cope right now. Museums and galleries can operate as accessible cool zones, protecting both people and priceless collections. We also look at the uncomfortable internal work the sector must do: consolidation and monopolies, unequal power, labour impacts, patriarchy, and the need to challenge endless growth thinking so creativity stays humane, diverse, and sustainable.
If you care about sustainability, climate policy, creative leadership, and culture-based climate action, this conversation will give you language, examples, and a sharper framework to act. Have a listen.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Welcome To Good Guys
SPEAKER_00Good guys. A podcast series on sustainability. Hosted by Damla Ozer and Steve Connor. Brought to you by the DNS Network.
SPEAKER_04Hello, hello everyone. You are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability, which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damlo from Mira Agency Istanbul and this is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester.
SPEAKER_01This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated, and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
SPEAKER_04So in this episode, we're going to talk to Utku Guan and Samuel Rubin. Utku is the co-founder of S-Mure, a purpose-driven design studio and an independent digital media platform.
SPEAKER_01And Samuel is the co-founder of Entertainment and Culture Pavilion, standing at the intersection of culture and climate action, which is brilliant. Very much my sweet spot, dedicated to utilizing the transformative power of arts, entertainment, cultural engagement to address global climate challenges. So, Uko and Samuel, thanks so much for taking the time to jump on the podcast with Gamela and myself.
SPEAKER_04But before that, can we find out a little bit more about the two of you? I mean, what's the journey to your current roles been like and what gets you out of bed in the morning, apart from a strong cup of coffee? So who wants to begin? Samuel, would you like to begin?
Samuel’s Path From Stage To Climate
SPEAKER_02Yes, thank you so much. I mean, for me, my journey in the cultural ecosystem started at a very early age. I actually began my career as a child actor on stage with only 12 years old. And I was very fortunate to work with directors that were very passionate about how storytelling and performance could be a caralyst for social impact and breaking stigmas and delving deep in topics that sometimes are uncomfortable, unusual to talk about in the open, and that can be gun violence, racism, sexual violence, and bullying. And so I started working in those deep topics at uh at only 12 years old and realizing, oh, I love to combine my passion for activism with art. And so that began, that first was kind of the artivism journey. And then as I matured, I realized that producing was very much more on my skill set than acting. I'm not, I don't think I'm a great actor, but it just happened, and that's why I could be on set and see how you know it works to be in the industry and to realize the potential that's not been showed in front of the cameras and behind stays. And so I uh specialize in social impact and I started the production company with 16 years old, and I produced documentaries and theater shows and all kinds of uh interdisciplinary projects. And over time I realized that both in the making of those projects and the delivery and how it resonated with audiences, climate was a transparent issue that was not often portrayed accurately across the cultural spectrum because in my case, when I first started in social impact, I didn't confirm the ecological space, I didn't confirm the sustainability space, it was more from the human rights space. And for instance, my first documentary was about refugees and realizing that the projections of refugees, for instance, are expected to be in the hundreds of millions, isn't it, billion, not too far from now, by 2050 or by 2100. And that till yet we see and think of climate change as a polar bear issue or as a melting glaciers issue, make me realize oh, that's also a narrative problem, that's also a communications issue. So that's how I started specializing in culture-based climate action and producing impact campaigns for Greta Thunberg and for many films that include climate-related topics, thinking about innovative outside of the bus ways to bring in people into the movement and also make our entertainment and industry more sustainable.
SPEAKER_04That's a beautiful story, and we are over to you, Utku.
Utku On A Life Worth Living
SPEAKER_03It's really a hard question because I like question this every day. Not every day, but like once in a while, like every week, maybe. But what makes me really about if it's like really one-to-home censor, my answer is like I have like one life, and what can I do with this one life? Like it must be like something interesting, uh something that would work my time and my energy. So that's why I'm like doing all of this. Like that's why I just like packed my suitcase and jumped to the plane and went to Marrakesh. You know, and it was like, you know, it was like a officially my, but they didn't cover anything. So I just like went by myself and like not the flight ticket, like of course. But it's you know, like this this feeling of like I really need to because like I I've been working like corporate jobs before. I mean, it's a good living, like it's it is I'm not like really judging people who have like really uh nice 95 and you know uh stable jobs. This is like amazing thing to have, but like apart from that, like I just want you know, like I have just one life and I need to make this life full as as much as full possible. So that's why a life worth living.
SPEAKER_04That's that's a good quote, right, Steve?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I think I think we're all born of the same of the same ilk.
Global Stocktake Explained Simply
SPEAKER_01Let's move on to the cultural global stock take itself, Samuel. And one of the reasons why we're talking today. And begin with the basics for our listeners who aren't familiar with Convention of the Party, COP procedures. What is a global stock take and how does CGST work?
SPEAKER_02Yes, thank you for this question because that's that's the place to begin, because 99% of people don't know what the global stock take is, and that's totally fine. In the Paris Agreement, which is the landmark climate policy framework that more than 195 parties agreed to legally commit, there is an article, Article 14, that requires those parties to take stock and assess the gaps and the progress of the Paris Agreement and its goals every five years. And this might sound very rudimentary and quite boring, but the reason why it's important is precisely for what the outcomes of the first global stock state were. It took us 28 cops to recognize that the main cause of climate change is rooted in fossil fuel and that we need to transition away from oil, gas, and power. And that shows you that it is precisely a process like the global structure that can highlight the scientific consensus that not always translate in the political agreements of the party. So that's an example that I think is uh an important one. You know, like so far the process wolves have only been named in one official text coming out of COP, and that was the first global substance. And now the second global stock tape will happen in COP33, five years after Dubai in 2023. And uh it is an opportunity to tackle other gaps, to tackle other existential questions about how do we face the climate crisis. And I do believe that you know the climate crisis is not just an environmental crisis or an economic one, it's a cultural crisis as well. And culture has also not been named or recognized or included in the Paris Agreement, in the Sustainable Development Bowl, or in the first global structure, or any of the other decisions in itself for the global ball and adaptation. So I think if we consider the importance of culture across climate policy, in how it can reduce emissions across the creative industry, in how it can help communicate and break through with the current landscape of misinformation, of polarization. There is a lot of ways that culture can enable and drive climate action. But in order to do that, we also need to include that in the recipe, so to say, first how do we want to tackle and drive forward the implementation of the Paris Agreement. So the culture global spectacular, starting from that principle of, okay, let's tackle the cultural gap, let's see culture included in the official framework, is a reclamation. What will it look like for the cultural ecosystem, for that wide range of practitioners and stakeholders to consider the many ways that culture plays a role in each of the climate policy tracks. It can be adaptation, it can be mitigation, it can be capacity building, it can be finance. This process has been a collective one that has been decentralized, taking place around the world because different territories, different groups have different understandings of how culture plays a role in their ecosystems. So that's in a nutshell what CCST, as we also call it for short, is about and its main purpose. But happy to also think about specific examples of what you know the CCST text looks like and how it relates to our everyday life.
SPEAKER_04Wow, that's a great frame, actually. And uh you operate on a belief that culture drives meaningful change, and your mission is to foster a global community where creative expression and cultural heritage play a pivotal role in promoting sustainability and inspiring eco-conscious behavior. So here there are two parts of this. I mean, one is adopting the existing cultural heritage and mitigating the effects of climate change, and while pre at the same time, you have to preserve our common heritage as a whole globally, and the other one is creating a new climate-oriented culture that will reduce the human impact on the planet. So, what are your broader intervention methods for these?
Culture As A Missing Climate Lever
SPEAKER_02I mean, I think you know, part of the reason why it's so complicated to grasp the ways that culture plays a role in climate is because it is very far-reaching and extensive. You gave a few examples that are concrete and tangible, such as, for instance, you know, like right now in our society, we have seen over time the evolution of civilization captured in our heritage sites, in our language, in our cultural identity, and now that's at risk. And it's at risk in ways that goes beyond the non-economic. Because when we talk about large and damage, and when we talk about rising sea levels and the fact that some small island states are facing the possibility of extinction, that of course has an economic impact, but so it does with the cultural one. And so I think that also goes to the point that, you know, part of the reason why life on earth as we know it is under threat is because we have been putting a price tag on nature beyond its real worth. Like right now, if we look at the Amazon rainforest and we preserve it and we keep it intact, it might make less money than if we shop it all down and sell the wood. And so the same happens with culture. But culture is also what makes our society resilient and strong and gives us a purpose in life. So I think that's one aspect of why this is so holistically important. But then in a more practical aspect, as we now face the extreme consequences of climate change, which for instance heat waves are a very evident one, so many people don't have access to air conditioning, they don't have access to climate refugees, they don't have uh infrastructure to survive the impacts of climate-extreme weather events. And this is where the cultural ecosystem has infrastructure that can prepare cities, that can prepare societies with the tools and spaces needed to cope and mitigate and adapt to the impacts of climate change. Museums are a perfect example. You know, we were together with Esme Yor's team in London at the Tate Mother Museum in the middle of the heat wave in London, where you will go into the bus, you will go into the metro, and it was more than 40 degrees inside. But then when we were in the Tate Modern Museum, which is a free museum that anyone can go to, the temperature was perfect, and part of it is because the artwork in the museum needs to be preserved and taken care of. But then this is an accessible space for people who, for instance, the elderly or other vulnerable groups who are, as we see now, risking their life and dying in unprecedented numbers because of heat wave, and museums and other cultural infrastructure sites have an important role in saving those lives. So it's not just the culture that is in those museums that we need to protect and our legacy as humanity, because we humans are the ones in danger. The planet Earth will continue to remain, even if it's just a bunch of lava and rocks. You know, it's us and our cultural heritage that is at risk. But then, of course, that the infrastructure that we need to protect us and keep us safe. So that's a little bit in a nutshell, but so happy that we have Utku here to also, you know, share more his thoughts on this.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I think umku, I mean the the Samuel's done an excellent job of explaining the CGST and the role of particularly the role of culture in driving change. And there's so much we could get into more in more depth, Samuel. The whole idea of cultural spaces as cool zones that are these third spaces that people get to during one heat wave after another is really fascinating. But we need to go, but we need to focus on the stock take itself, I think.
Museums As Cool Zones In Heatwaves
SPEAKER_01Uh, if I can come to you, the final text of the first cultural global stock take will be formally launched in Turkey alongside UNFCCCC, UNESCO, other supporting parties. And while it's still in progress, there is going to be a strong emphasis, I think, isn't there, on inclusive participatory, culturally appropriate, and cooperative approaches. And so how do you think this can be put into action given that we're seeing a rising sort of anti-EDI quality, diversity, inclusion, political backlash across the world, ironically, being called by some a culture war against climate politics? What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03I mean, for sure it's going to be challenging for all of the partners and stakeholders on that science. But I think it's really important to know that these things are not has not been in even in discussion for like several years. Like when we go back to like maybe like a few decades, these were like some fringe ideas of you know all this, you know, decolonialism and you know the this cultural aspect of the things. But now is I think like what like the Samuel and his team like started is kind of like bring this polarization into like mainstream, I would say. So that I think that's that's really important because like when when I see like like let's say like 10 years ago, this the idea of this the you know indigenous communities and like this the culture preserved there going to be like a really important aspect of like climate talks, climate action. I think that there were voices, of course. There was like literature and there were there were like groups involved, but now is there like what they it's get to their in the their vocabulary and their action. But I I mean that's like what I'm seeing is like I think the c culture could be a driving force against all this, like what you mentioned about you know, like the political shift through you know, like against all these policies about the inclusion and all that. And of course, they but I think this is like a really good entry point for for us to to bring this that talk to the climate space. I think that's that's our I think big advantage for now. I think that being in some like in Antalya, in Turkey, I think it's an advantage as well, ironically, because I think that we are really keen on like cultural stuff as like a policy as a country, you know, all the like cultural heritage is a big part of the country, and they have been like done quite a lot like in recent decades on like preserving cultural heritage and that sort. So that could be for us, like because it's going to be like the first like draft will be like is uh out in the website right now, but at least like we will be uh all together with like all the participatory uh the uh uh stakeholders, like we will be uh representing in the COP Turkey one. And I think it's an advantage because we are like a Turkey is a country that like really like keen on these talks around culture and cultural heritage.
Inclusion Backlash And Culture Wars
SPEAKER_04Well, the stock take also gives us a general picture of the creative and cultural industries with their global infrastructure. And now I'm gonna quote, it's a bit long, but I want to directly quote from the second draft recognizes that the cultural ecosystem is heavily consolidated and monopolized, driven by corporate profit motives and largely dominated by patriarchal systems in the global north, and that this conversation of power reinforces cultural inequity and limits cultural diversity. So, with this recognition, what are the interventions on a financial and systemic level you will propose? Who wants to begin first this time?
SPEAKER_02Well, I want to just say that you know there are several parts to the cultural clevel tactic that are very exciting, and one of them is the co-creation that we are right now in this moment. Which is, as you say, this is the second draft. The input period for submissions is open until September 27th, almost another two months. FUDCU, for instance, was a part of the Marrakes Partnership Accelerator, where we delivered the first draft and had 50 delegates from all over the world co-design and collaborate in bringing together many ideas and many agenda points, different realities. But I think that, you know, we are in a moment specifically to that point that you named from the outcome section. Where we recognize that inequality and economic disparity have reached unprecedented points. And this is not an opinion, this is a fact based on, you know, many different indicators. And the entertainment industry and creative industries are no stranger to that fact. Not only from the point of consolidation that is referenced in this point, where we now see, for instance, I've worked for 10 years in Hollywood. I have many friends who have worked in the studio system. And when we talk about, you know, when we talk about a studio merging with another, that has real Labor implications and it has many implications for creative freedom, for what kind of products are granted, what is the rate and the budget that is offered to professionals in the creative industries, and the sustainability of the industry to survive long term as well. So it's not only that we talk about sustainability in entertainment to make movies grim or to reduce waste, it's that we make it because this industry has to be better for the people working on it, and that artists need to have a living way, need to be able to sustain themselves and sustain the planet. That is intertwined and interconnected. And so in a moment where right now so much of our life is changing because of the increasing rapid escalation of artificial intelligence, of digital innovation. And again, that is also interconnected in the way that we see the entertainment and creative industries operate. We have to question some of those growth strategies and whether if they are aligned with the interest of the planet and its people and the creative industry, because we want to make the best movies, not just one franchise over another franchise over another IP over another IP with no soul and essence of what makes us artists and storytellers. And I think you know that's a little bit what is exposed in this article, which may change or evolve by the time that this tactic is presented in Capture 2.1. That's far beyond my pay grade, because again, this is a collaborative assembly-like process. But this is why I always encourage people of different viewpoints to engage and contribute so that the final result can be one that brings together those perspectives in a cohesive framework that policymakers and industry cultural practitioners alike can engage with and use as an advocacy tool.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. I actually think, though, Samuel, if I'm honest, Damler wanted you to say. We have to tear down patriarchy immediately, otherwise, we're gonna make zero progress. And the idea of infinite growth on a finite planet is the most ludicrous signal, if not a clarion cry, of late capitalism eating its own tail. But I don't think that's gonna make it into the final draft somehow. I imagine that's not fine.
SPEAKER_02I think it will, because you know, the beauty of this project is that again, it's a reclamation of, you know, a grassroots-powered movement. Because for far too long, people look at COP, people look at the UNCCCC at the UN, and they're like, that's not working. It's not delivering results. And my hope, and this is my personal hope, is that people can believe in policy because they see themselves represented in it. So I will do anything I can as an organizer to make sure that everyone that wants to tear down the patriarchy participates in this process so that us together we see represented those views in the text. Because again, these are not necessarily the people that have a seat in the negotiation table. And this is not, we're not writing a law, we're not writing, you know, something that will have to be approved by government themselves, but we are stating our intentions in an organized manner so that we can influence the process as much as possible using all and every single of the channels available to us.
SPEAKER_01I love it. So in the virtual podcast studio we have here in front of us, people, Damler is doing a happy dance all around that virtual studio. Sorry, Uku, you were gonna come in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was going to say actually, one of the things that we discussed during like the our meetings in Marrakesh is like exactly that what that point, that like maybe some of these articles won't make it to the final uh stage, but it has been said and it has been written down already. So that's really important. Point, and and and actually we were saying, like, okay, you can say whatever you want. If there's not a turning into policy, so what? Like you it's just like you know, in the air. But I mean those ideas could be used in different national and local policies. So even though it doesn't make to till the end as like a you know non-binding UN document, but I think those ideas actually can be implemented in you know in our local governments in our local policies. So I think it's also a really important point.
Mutirao And Reclaiming Climate Policy
SPEAKER_01And is is this where, okay, just very specific, I'm we're gonna close in a second, but is this where you're leaning into what's called the uh I'll get this wrong because I've only read it, I've not spoken. Muturau concept that was introduced at COP30 in Bilem, which is which I think the stock take recognises, which is traditional Brazilian and indigenous concept, meaning a collective cooperative community effort towards a shared goal, an urgent problem, which obviously climate crisis counts as. That's one of the ideas that's in the stock take, I think, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I just somehow can't help in that point more uh than me. You want to jump?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I I think you know, the Mutirao, you know, ancestral framework is an example of how indigenous-led wisdom need to play such an important role in the way that we think of the ways we need to reconnect with the planet. But it also highlights the turning point that Coptier played in terms of how do we reclaim policy and make it a more multi-stakeholder collaborative process. And the culture global stock take comes at the right time after the development of the global ethical stock take, which is one of the initiatives of the Copterti presidency, which was made to think about the ethical considerations of the implementation of the Paris Agreement. And that was led by Marina Silva, Brazil's environment minister, because she, as a politician herself and someone who is a community organizer, knows that there is not enough spaces to bring those perspectives into the policy-making arena. So we want to contribute to this process as well from the lens of the cultural ecosystem. And yes, the Mutirao Cop 30 presidency, which has participated and contributed to the stock take for culture, is a big turning point in that process. And that's I take Utkut's word that Antalya can be a good place to continue those conversations because yes, the bar is very high when it comes to Brazil and the Cop 30 presidency, but I also do have faith that you know Turkey, which is a country that you know has such an interesting geographic, cultural, geopolitical stance in the world, can be also an ambassador and an incubator for culture-based climate action, especially now that this is the year that negotiations will begin for that second global stockpick. So I encourage Turkey and Antalya and Australia and the Pacific because that's another particular aspect of this year's Cup. For the first time, we have a co-presidency of various cultures coexisting together, which, in my view, reinforces why cultural diplomacy is so important and why we need culture to be part of the international cooperation frameworks of the UNCCC. So we will root and make as much noise as possible and as much Mutirau as possible for culture-based climate action to be one of the biggest outcomes of this year's copy and talia.
SPEAKER_04Well, I really want to go on and on about a lot of things culture, patriarchy, but also capitalism, but also Turkey's interesting moves around the world. As Utku can imagine, how I want to do that. But we have limited time, so I have to jump to our final question.
What Still Makes Us Smile
SPEAKER_04And this question is our network is ironically called do not smile because we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world. So what object, place, or person always makes you both smile. Go first.
SPEAKER_03Can you just repeat the question and I will go in? I'm sorry, I was like it was like a such a bit. I did like 150 podcasts by the way. Like, this is embarrassing. I'm sorry, guys. Like, no problem. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay, set. I really want to go on and on about a lot of things with you with culture, patriarchy, capitalism, and the interesting things that Turkey brings into the world. But I have to stop now because it's time to wrap up. Final question: our network is ironically called do not smile because we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world. So, what object, place or person always makes you both smile? Utku, go first.
SPEAKER_03I'm a big fan of like situation humor. So I think that's like an awkward humor, you know, like that's really like make me smile. And and actually I'm following in like in serious international conferences as well. So that's kind of like brings me joy, like even like more in the most serious things that you find like a humor. So that's I think that situation brings me happiness and joy.
SPEAKER_04Good one. Samuel!
SPEAKER_02Well, I've been blessed that my algorithm is recently filled with cows. Yeah, and I have now found a new passion for the cow side of the internet. There is so many cute, adorable videos of, especially the tiny little cows, which are like a cow pony version or something like that. And they're so cute and adorable. And you know, my algorithm used to be filled with hot guys that used to make me question my self-worth, and now I am introducing as many animals into it as possible so that they enlighten me and and make me happy and smile when I open my phone.
SPEAKER_04That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01That's extraordinary. I absolutely love that. Both of them are cool. I love situational comedies, excellent. And then in the context of international conferences, hadn't closed that before, but I love it. And cows, Samuel, cows. I well, recommendation. I don't know whether you've come across the book, The Secret Language, Secret Life of Cows. I can recommend it. They they are much more complicated animals than you think. And yeah, absolutely love it. Are you I've got to ask the question now, Samuel. Are you vegan?
SPEAKER_02That is the main reason that's making me, you know, and that's the beauty of storytelling and content, no, that you humanize and empathize, and being from Spain and having so many meat in my diet, I'm now like, but without being plant-based, I'm consciously decreasing my meat intake of my potato.
SPEAKER_01Yo, you can get there. You can get there, Samuel. Come on, join us on the on the happy vegan bench. I've been on it for 32 years, so you can do
Final Reflections And Goodbye
SPEAKER_01it. Hey, listen, guys, that was amazing. As ever, with culture, I think it's so fascinating because not only do we need to think about the cultural industries, cultural output, and how it intersects with sustainability, but really culture frames everything we do, doesn't it? So it's literally at the heart. Well, listen, Damla, I didn't see the cows coming, but that's been a hell of a podcast. So you better wrap us up.
SPEAKER_04So thanks to everyone who has listened to our good guys podcast brought to you by the Do Not Smile Network of Agencies.
SPEAKER_01And make sure you listen to future episodes. We'll be talking to more amazing people that help them work together to create a more sustainable future. So Samuel, Damla, how do you sing?
SPEAKER_00Bye.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Good guys to a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Ozler and Steve Connor. Brought to you by the DNS Network.
