GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Banking on Nature, with Dana Clouston
In this exciting episode we talk to Dana Clouston, Head of Sustainable Finance at Barclays Business Bank, as she takes us on a journey from her roots in New Zealand agriculture to her current position at the forefront of sustainable finance innovation.
Dana shares how Barclays is working toward becoming a net-zero bank by 2050 through three key strategies: supporting clients on their transition journey, providing financing for green initiatives, and scaling climate tech solutions.
We cover small businesses—which make up 99% of UK businesses and contribute about half of the country's business emissions— and how they often struggle to prioritise sustainability amidst their day-to-day operational demands. We also talk about the Willow Review, co-chaired by Barclays, which offers a practical five-point plan for SMEs: switch to sustainable materials, reduce travel, minimise waste, adopt renewable energy, and partner with sustainable suppliers.
And then finally we talk about nature and farming, and how regenerative farming represents a growing movement with profound implications for both business resilience and environmental recovery, one that's worth the investment.
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Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello everyone. You are listening to Good Ge Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from Mira Agency, Istanbul, and.
Speaker 3:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
Speaker 2:So in this episode we're going to talk to Donna Clauston, who is the Head of Sustainable Finance at Barclays Business Bank, working on supporting business to decarbonize, help to finance nature recovery and supporting UK farmers in adopting more regenerative practices.
Speaker 3:Before taking up this amazing role at Barclays and with a bit of travel to break things up, dana, you were a head of natural capital at the Bank of New Zealand, where, amongst other things, you were deeply involved in sustainable agri-tech. So, dana, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Speaker 4:Oh, nice to be here.
Speaker 3:So we always like to kick off. It's great, nice to be here, so we always like to kick off. It's great to have you on the podcast. We always like to kick off with a bit of backstory, so ideally, we'd love you to tell us what led you into the world of banking and then what brought you to leading on sustainable finance at Barclays.
Speaker 4:Gosh, that's a great question. What led me into banking? I don't think anyone kind of dreams of becoming a banker necessarily when they're growing up or maybe they do but my background is I come from an agricultural background. So I'm born and raised on farms in a wee spot called Taranaki in New Zealand. And then I went through agriculture university, majored in international agribusiness and then went on to work for an international agribusiness firm.
Speaker 4:So we were looking at asset management, we were looking at global trade just a really cool starter for teenage thinking kind of gave me a bit of a flavor for finance as well as allowing me to sort of flex my agricultural muscle. And then I moved into commercial banking from there and did a few roles at a bank called the Bank of New Zealand, one One of them being around like specialist agri trade. So, thinking about, I'm a farmer and I've got a really cool concept that I want to take as a brand to the global markets. And through that role, one of the things that I started to realize was that we needed to think more about sustainability within both the conversations we were having in New Zealand agriculture and also within the banking conversations as well. So what could the banks do do to support.
Speaker 4:So I guess that's how I kind of found my way into the very early days of natural capital and sustainable agriculture and then, I guess sustainable finance kind of grew arms and legs from there. I kind of grew up with the market. So we did some really cool things during my time at the Bank of New Zealand, including launching the first sustainably linked loan for farmers in the world, and I guess I found a real passion for the role that finance can play in supporting our customers, at whatever bank I'm at just our customers to think about sustainable finance, to think about how actually working with their banking partner can have such a really critical role in their journey towards, I guess, a transitioning business. So that's a lot of the work that I did. And then a few years ago my husband and I made our way over to London and I was very fortunate to join the wonderful team at Barclays in the head of sustainable finance role and have been doing some very cool work ever since. So I'm excited to talk a little bit more about that today, steve.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great. So we've got a big picture of you, Donna, and let's talk about this big work. Could you tell us what the priorities at Barclays in terms of delivering a more sustainable future?
Speaker 4:I would love to. So at Barclays, we're doing some really great work in terms of delivering against our ambition to be a net zero bank by 2050. And we do that in a couple of different ways. So it's really about supporting our clients on their transition, it's about financing the client's transition. And it's about scaling climate tech so that we're thinking about how we can use technology and innovation throughout helping our customers transition as well.
Speaker 4:So we've been doing some really great work, and I guess I like to break it down into a few different lenses, so I always think about it roughly in three different ways. So it's about helping customers to understand the business case to transitioning, so by ensuring that we've got the right products, for example, like our Barclays green loan for businesses, to ensure that we're incentivizing the transition too. And then it's also about and helping them to access finance. And then it's about helping them to ensure that we're incentivizing the transition too. And then it's also about and helping them to access finance. And then it's about helping them to understand that a really resilient business model can come about off the back of transitioning. And then also that piece around climate tech, so thinking about how we're innovating and adopting new and exciting technologies and also mindset, I always think, towards creating those more sustainable businesses, and one of the things actually that really drew me to Barclays originally was our support for climate tech.
Speaker 4:So from idea through our innovation banking ecosystem to IPO is what we always talk about. It's how we're helping climate tech businesses and founders actually to scale those businesses and agri-tech to me is also a really key part of climate tech too so we're helping them to scale to solve those real world problems that our customers are facing. And one of the stats that I'm really proud of at Barclays is through our climate ventures team, which has a mandate to invest up to 5 million of our own capital by 2027, we've already invested 239 million into over 20 innovative climate tech companies as of june 2025. So there's certainly a lot of really wonderful innovations coming out of the uk tech scene that are purely focused on solving some of those climate tech issues and really trying to create impact brilliant, and I should.
Speaker 3:We. I'm wondering, donna, should we give a little plug to Sustainable Ventures, because we met at their we?
Speaker 4:should give a little plug to Sustainable Ventures, stips and test work. So if you haven't seen the great work that Sustainable Ventures do, we are really proud partners of them and do go and have a look at the wonderful work that they do supporting climate tech ventures across the UK.
Speaker 3:Brilliant. That's a shameless plug over with, and so in a moment we'll go back to agriculture and fields and farms and your beginnings there, I think, because it's really fascinating. But before we do that, Dana, I mean Barclays is really well known for being a bank that supports SMEs, and SMEs are a massive part of the economy. Obviously, they make up the bulk of business. Barclays co-chaired the recent Willow Review into small businesses and sustainability that I think people would be really interested to know more about. I don't think it's got as great an impact as it deserves, because it's some really great thinking. So what were the main recommendations in the Willow review and how do you feel we can finally crack the code on helping small, busy and sometimes cash-strapped businesses to embrace sustainability?
Speaker 4:Well and I mean I think you've hit the nail on the head right Small, busy and cash-strapped businesses that might not actually be thinking about sustainability in their day-to-day. So there's such a critical role, I think, for public and private sector to play, and a piece of work like the Willow Review really shone a light on A a lot of the great research that's been done to date. But also, you know how we speak. In a way I'm giving away one of the recommendations, but how we speak in a way that kind of reframes the sustainability message and the narrative to be more about, you know, business resilience and that business case for sustainability. But I just wanted to step back a step, because a lot of things I wanted to open with was a stat that it actually it genuinely shocked me when I first arrived in the UK, which was around small businesses in the UK. They make up over 99% of all businesses in the UK and they contribute around half of the UK's businesses emissions. Now we don't spend enough time for lots of reasons. We don't spend enough time talking about the role of small businesses and how we can actually help them to think about sustainability in their day-to-day. So that was one of the reasons why, when we said that we would be co-chairing the Willow Review with Small Business Britain and Minister Gareth Thomas, I was really excited to play a small role in supporting this great piece of research and this great piece of work. So I think what I will say is the Willow Review. So, basically, what we wanted to do was highlight the importance of particularly the role of government in developing long-term, consistent and clear policies and regulations around the impact small businesses can have and thinking about the confidence that we can give to small businesses to help them with their sustainability efforts. So there's 14 recommendations in this review and really what we aim to do is create a roadmap for government, financial services and small businesses to foster that green growth.
Speaker 4:So the first thing I'll share is what we encourage some businesses to do was adopt a five-point plan for sustainability. So these were five really actionable, simple steps which I think is really important actually to share on this podcast, because sometimes we talk, you know, a little bit vaguely about sustainability. So I'm going to share those. So the first one was switch to sustainable materials. Second was reduce travel and optimize logistics, minimize waste through circular economy initiatives. Fourth was adopt renewable energy sources and the fifth was partner with sustainable suppliers and clients. And then when we think about you know how we can partner with sustainable suppliers and clients, it's also about partnering with you know financial services, with accountants, with you know law firms, with all of those people that are kind of in your sort of business sphere that can also support you on this journey as well. And I see banks and have always seen banks as playing a really critical role in being like a partner for growth but also a partner of choice to help small businesses to kind of understand the needs and what's next for them.
Speaker 4:Now some of the other recommendations that were for government and financial services.
Speaker 4:We called for both greater access to finance for better support with business planning and education and Barclays has got some really exciting workshops and mentor programs and a few other bits and pieces coming out in the next few months which really focus on that support with business planning and that need for better education and then we also called on government for local sustainability champions and also a campaign to enhance uptake of existing resources, like the UK Business Climate Hub.
Speaker 4:So if you are a small business and you're listening to this podcast, the UK Business Climate Hub is a fantastic resource and we don't use it enough, and it really helps to shine a light on where you can go to access grant funding from government, some simple steps to help you get started, and I do think it's a fantastic resource which I'd encourage anyone to check out.
Speaker 4:And then we spoke about that piece that I teased before. So we really leaned in on talking about, you know, a reframing of the sustainability narrative and that's really to start focusing on growth, competitiveness and profitability. And I think that you know, if you think about what you said at the start, steve, you know us small businesses are so busy, they're cash strapped, they've got so much going on and actually, when you think about sustainability and if you think about some of those steps in that five-point plan, actually so much of that is actually about creating more efficiencies within your business. It's about creating better resilience, it's about cost savings. So really, for financial services, for the public sector, the way that we speak about sustainability is so important to really resonate and help people to understand. Actually this is going to be better for my business in so many ways.
Speaker 2:Wow. And bringing it down to just five steps and then just supporting them with mentoring and education, that's a very good blueprint, I think, and it seems that it's working. But on to farms, many of which are, of course, barclays customers. You're a passionate advocate for regenerative farming, but, believe it or not, some listeners may not yet have encountered it. So can you do a quick explainer on regenerative farming for us and how your work plays into this?
Speaker 4:I would love to A topic very near and dear to my heart, so Black Laser. To give a little bit of context as to how we're sort of talking about this, black Laser is a really proud lender to UK farming sector. So we've been backing UK farmers for more than 280 years and we bank more than 30,000 farmers across the UK. So we have a very proud heritage in helping farmers to navigate all sorts of change and challenges that are happening in their business and have been happening in UK agriculture for many, many years now. Regenerative farming so look, there's lots of different interpretations of how you can think about this, but generally speaking, it kind of centres around a couple of ideas. So it centres around the idea of safeguarding and, very importantly, enhancing farming through soil health, biodiversity, water management and climate resilience, and it's also really centered around that support for farmers and for farming communities at its core. So I think that's a really you know you speak to a really passionate farmer who identifies themselves as a regenerative farmer and they will speak so passionately about all of those topics and particularly around, you know, the support that it brings them in terms of, you know, supporting rural communities and farmers learn best from farmers, right and we all know that. So, whether it be you know the Barclays Farm to Farm Offense, or whether it be you know some of the wonderful initiatives that are happening across the UK to promote regenerative agriculture, it's really about bringing farmers together to kind of learn and develop ideas with each other. Now, one of the stats that I love from a recent farmer survey that we did was four in ten farmers are looking to transition to regenerative agriculture or similar nature positive approaches in the near future. So four in ten. So this isn't any more about being a sort of a bit of a niche industry. This is very, very core and it goes actually back to that reframing of the sustainability narrative conversation, because I think a lot of people are really starting to understand that regenerative farming, nature positive farming, you know, transitioning farming, however you want to talk about it that there's actually this really clear business case for this. It's about resilience, it's about risk management and, increasingly, it's about competitive advantage.
Speaker 4:Now, I've been in and around agribanking for a long time, as I mentioned before, and that's actually no different to a lot of the factors that we've been thinking about when it comes to agriculture for a very, very long time. So I think it's just about this next level of it and I do think that farmers they innately, by the work that they do, every day they're working in nature, they innately understand actually the importance of protecting and enhancing nature. And to share a couple more stats with you to kind of really emphasize this point, in that same survey where we spoke to Barclays farmers, there's a couple of really cool stats here. So 68% of UK farmers that we surveyed are keen to adopt nature positive practices, despite costs, complexity, uncertainty being major barriers, which we know. And again, that's actually a very similar thing that we found in the willow report about small businesses more generally. And three in five farmers have already planted native plants and trees to improve biodiversity across their farms and lots of them are considering registering their farms for being in biodiversity net gain sites and things like that as well. So there's that really clear kind of commercial rationale. I think that's coming out of farming in the UK when it comes to thinking about regenerative agriculture.
Speaker 4:Now there's a couple of other things I did just want to mention because I think, while farmers are doing this wonderful work and really starting to have eyes up on the benefits and the commercial case for regenerative agriculture and transitioning their businesses. There's a couple of things that we need to do right to make sure that we're supporting them and really you know, uh, and making sure that there's like a lot of support around them. So there's a couple of things that I just wanted to mention. So, from a public perspective, like, we wrote a policy paper late last year which called on government to give a little bit more clarity to help farmers navigate that really complex trade-off of how you use your land use. So if you're thinking about bringing the regenerative farming in with maybe some of those voluntary nature markets and things like that, some clarity around strong and stable policies to support and give confidence in that space is really important.
Speaker 4:And then, with the private sector, it's around making sure that the private sector is having a very clear voice to farmers around the support that's available to help them to transition and to get started, because getting started is is definitely the hardest part about all of this, and so one of the things that Barclays has actually been doing is we've been supporting an initiative through the Sustainable Markets Initiative called Roots to Regen. Now, that includes ourselves, mcdonald's, mccain's, waitrose and plenty of others, and the aim of that was to demonstrate the viable and attractive business model around regenerative agriculture across the sector and the collaboration that's coming out of the private sector to help farmers understand actually what the commercial case is for transitioning to RegenAg. So there's tons of support out there and I think there's a real momentum here, certainly a momentum that in my time working in and around natural capital sustainable agriculture I haven't seen this level of momentum before, so it's a really exciting time, I think.
Speaker 3:I completely agree. I mean, damla is going to in a second. I think Damla is going to pick up on the specifics I think, damla of nature finance. But before we get into that, I just want to. I want to stay at sort of narrative level, if that doesn't sound too winky wanky. So because, to share with you, I do a weird thing every morning, which is I get up super early to listen to farming today, how about that? So I have this like 15 minute farming moment every morning and I find it really fascinating that the world of finance and banking is becoming more confident talking about nature and farmers, I think, are becoming much more confident in their sort of narrative around nature. So, before we get into the specifics of nature finance, what's your, what's your sort of meta take on this conversation? We're starting to really recognize the role that nature plays, I think, in a much more fundamental way, don't you agree?
Speaker 4:yeah, I think so. I mean, look, nature is by nature, what it is a really tricky thing to measure, to manage to, you know, put a really robust standardization around, and it's something that I'll talk about shortly as well. But I think that there is just this real momentum where, for a long time, I think it's been a, you know, a climate tunnel vision, and now we're starting to think in Barclays as well, we're starting to think about, you know, how do you bring nature and those social elements back into that conversation, and and so it's. It's this maturity. I think of the way that we've been thinking about sustainability as a broader organizer, as a broader kind of ecosystem of sustainable finance professionals as well. But there's just this the time feels right to be making sure that we're thinking about nature.
Speaker 4:You know, there's lots of different frameworks that are starting to emerge, that are gaining a lot of traction. There is a lot of momentum, particularly around regenerative agriculture, from the food supply chain, for example. It feels like this natural progression and it's a really exciting maturity, I think we are we're heading and the way that we're starting to think a little bit deeper as well around where some of those opportunities are, where we can build more resilience, that sort of thing. So, like I say, it's this, it's this maturing, I think, of the work that we've all been sort of so dedicated to for such a long time it's also a I mean nature finance.
Speaker 2:It's also a very specific is a subject of great debate, as I understand, right across the world at the moment. How do you think we can work towards the system of incentives or payments that can help to accelerate nature recovery, and can we learn a thing or two from climate finance?
Speaker 4:Yeah, look, I mean to expand on what I was saying earlier. I think the challenge with nature finance and financing nature effectively is that we're not trying to mirror the early days of climate finance here. Say that you know any functioning market that I've seen. You know, regardless of whether it's nature or or what have you, a functioning natural, a functioning market needs a couple of things right it needs scale, it needs standardization and it needs to be able to be replicated. Now, nature is this complex, place-based, fragmented thing that is really tricky to wedge into a scaled, standardized, you know, replicatable box. So, by nature of what it is, it's a tricky thing. So, kind of, I guess, put finance and and functioning markets around, but I think building credible, transparent, place-based approaches to match finance it is possible and there's, you know, the ability for really enduring business models that can come off the back of this. It's going to take a little bit of creativity from the financial sector, which I think is what I think people are really thinking about at the moment, and it's also going to take probably a greater emphasis on partnerships as well. That, can, you know, help to sort of allow for the experts and that place-based approach in some of those really nuanced areas of nature to really work together with finance to create those creative solutions.
Speaker 4:So one of the things that Barclays has done actually is, when we think about England's biodiversity net gain system, that was one of the things we were watching really closely, particularly at the back end of last year. So if anyone's not familiar with what that is, that's a statutory requirement under the environment act 2021 and that was designed for, or new developments need to create and show a measurable improvement in biodiversity compared to the pre-development baseline. So it it's a minimum of 10% net gain uplift in biodiversity. That's needed to be seen Now. A developer can do that two ways. They can achieve that on-site within the development, but sometimes it's actually not possible to do that. There's not enough space. So actually they can do that off-site by, like buyer, purchasing biodiversity units, and the way that you can sometimes purchase those biodiversity units is from landowners.
Speaker 4:So we think about this in the respect of we obviously bank a lot of the UK's house builders. We bank a lot of the UK's farmers and there's this opportunity, I think, for farmers to look at possible new revenue streams that actually could come off the back of, you know, entering into the biodiversity net gain market. So thinking about, you know, increasing biodiversity across some of the more ineffective areas of land, for example, and one of the important things about the biodiversity net gain market is that minimum of 30 years, with ongoing management and maintenance of those biodiversity units as well. So going back to that, you know, those earlier thoughts around building resilience actually is what we wanted to do was really open up those channels for farmers that they thought that this was right for them. So we partnered with a group called Environment Bank late last year to help farmers to understand if BNG was right for them and to help our housefitters to kind of understand if offsite units were available and how to access them. So that's one of those examples I think of actually where the financial sector has come together with those experts to really think about, you know, creative ways that we can be promoting different elements of, you know, nature-based solutions across both our client base but also kind of promoting it more broadly around the financial sector as well, to say like here's some examples of how it's worked and how it's worked really well.
Speaker 4:And then I think there's look. What I would say is there's no magic bullet here, unfortunately. Maybe with all things to do with sustainable finance. It's been a it's been a long road right. There are no magic bullets, but one of the things I would also vouch for here is what we are seeing is, as we're seeing, I guess, the nature conversation mature.
Speaker 4:We're also seeing a lot of technologies entering the sphere as well, so there's a real role role here as well for climate tech and creating some of those solutions as well and so we're starting to see a really key role for technology and innovation and thinking about, maybe, the measurement of nature, the understanding of actually the role that nature plays within, you know, farming systems, within the wider ecosystem, and the way that we start to kind of understand more about that.
Speaker 4:So we're watching, I guess, the nature tech movement, if we want to call it that as well, which I think is a really exciting element within this too, so it can take nature finance, I would say, is taking many different shapes and forms. But, going back to my earlier point, I think it's about taking a really creative approach to this and kind of just really trying to think about, you know, how we can partner with those experts to make sure that we're coming up with really usable, workable solutions only podcast, dana, which sometimes is disappointing for our listeners, because if they could see you, they'd see a huge amount of excitement bursting out of the screen.
Speaker 3:What I totally get is you're at this nexus of tech and emerging conversation that is learning all the time about how to make this happen. I think it's fascinating. I think we're only part of the way there. One thing that made me laugh last year was I was at a conference and somebody talked about a World Bank report that showed that 60% of the world's economy was dependent on natural ecosystems and I thought, wow, that's a big statistic. That's amazing. And then somebody quite smartly said well, if the world's ecosystems collapse, you'd have no economy. So that's a ridiculous statistic, and it gives us a sense of how we've still got so much to learn about nature, haven't we? It's amazing. Well, I think we.
Speaker 3:We're gonna have to wrap it up, even though I would love to get more into innovation tech. We can go deeper on nature's systems and what they mean for us all. But we'd like to finish with a question, a final question, which is our network is ironically called Do Not Smile, because we know that we need to make sustainability something that brings happiness into the world. So tell us what object, place or person always makes you smile.
Speaker 2:So tell us what object, place or person always makes you smile.
Speaker 4:Well, my home region in New Zealand is a place called Taranaki and there is this very symmetrical mountain there and when I go home and I see that first glimpse of Mount Taranaki and the land around it, gosh, that makes me smile. And it's one of the things I think that keeps pushing me forward is that want to protect that sacred place so I can go home too. And in New Zealand we have this very, very important Maori phrase, which is kaitiakitanga, which is the concept of guardianship of the sky, the sea and the land, and we're all kaitiaki, which basically means we're guardians. So I think if you're listening to this podcast, I imagine you're kaitiaki. You're a guardian of our land and our earth and doing some really amazing work to protect and enhance the beautiful place around us. So I would say Mount Taranaki is what kind of keeps me going, keeps pushing me forward.
Speaker 3:That's beautiful. I think you may win the award for the most beautiful and poetic answer to that question. Donna, that was amazing. Well, damla, I can't follow that. We're going to have to wrap it up, because that was just brilliant. I'm at the mountain.
Speaker 2:So thanks to everyone who has listened to our Good Guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile network of agencies.
Speaker 3:And make sure you listen to future episodes where we talk to more amazing people about how we can work together to create a more sustainable future. So, dana Damla, see you soon.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 1:Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability Hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
