GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Collectively Good, with the DNS Network
Our sustainability and communications experts from across Europe gather for a special Good Geist roundtable discussion at the offices of our Rome agency, Silverback.
We talk about our relationship with the natural world, how traditional economic models fail us and about the frameworks that place planetary boundaries as the foundation upon which our societies and economies must operate. Urban sustainability emerges as a vibrant topic, with our roundtable sharing experiences from cities across Europe. "Cities are the point where politics meets reality," notes one expert, describing the challenges of implementing sustainable transport and energy systems when faced with immediate citizen feedback. The group emphasises that effective communication must help people visualise possibilities: "If you don't know what is possible, you don't know that you want it."
From playful campaigns that engage children to finding joy in nature, we explore how positive emotions aren't just personally sustaining but essential for effective change-making. As Michael from TippingPoints beautifully summarises: "Flood the city with confidence" rather than despair.
Join us for this thoughtful group conversation that weaves together multiple perspectives on building a better future.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 3:Hello, hello everyone, you are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from Mira Agency, istanbul, and.
Speaker 4:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
Speaker 3:So here we are, Steve.
Speaker 4:Yes, here we are. Where are we?
Speaker 3:You are in a very nice place.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're here in the offices of Silverback in lovely Italy, joined by colleagues from all around our network. I think, actually, damla, what we might do. I might pass the microphone around so everybody can say who's here. Should we go around in a circle, ready, just say who you are and where you're from Hi everyone, I'm Matt from France CDS.
Speaker 6:I'm Hugo from France. Cds2. I'm Hugo from France.
Speaker 7:CDS too. Alexander from Simpraxis, athens.
Speaker 8:Michael from Tipping Point, germany.
Speaker 9:Helena, also from Tipping Point.
Speaker 2:Cristobal from Equavantis, spain.
Speaker 10:Simonetta from Silverback Italy.
Speaker 11:And Nicola from Silverback Italy and Nicola from Silverback Italy too.
Speaker 12:And Christophe, I'm from Brussels for springtime. Sorry for not being your day in Roma, unfortunately.
Speaker 4:Well, it's very lovely to have everybody here and this is a bit of an experiment, isn't it Damla, to do the podcast as a big conversation. So what we thought we'd do is start with a number of different themes that pick up some of our recent projects or conversations, and Damla and I will alternate between different questions that we have for everybody. But we thought we'd start with nature. So we've had a good few guests on Good Guys talking about nature recovery, forests, marine ecosystems, all sorts of lovely things who could talk I might come to you, Christophe, first about our connection with nature and how communications can help us to achieve nature recovery and things like that.
Speaker 12:Global goal of 30 percent of nature protected by 2030. What are your thoughts, christophe? 30% of nature protected by 2030. What are your thoughts, christophe? Well, if I may say this way, we shouldn't consider nature as a scenery, as a background, as something to look at. We should just be aware that we are nature, we ourselves being part of the nature and taking this into consideration may change our way of looking at nature totally differently, actually, so far, I mean, human beings are behaving as they are mastering nature, as they can allow themselves everything to nature, and this is leading to disaster, and I think this is time now, I mean, to change our mind and to consider ourselves as being totally responsible for ourselves, for our own nature and for the nature as a whole.
Speaker 4:Beautiful Christophe.
Speaker 12:That's beautiful.
Speaker 4:Anybody else got any thoughts on nature? Simonetta, you guys work so much on nature, don't you?
Speaker 10:Yes, I agree, I totally agree with Christophe. We are nature and that's the reality of our existence here. At the same time, I think that nature is growing in weight in our culture, for instance, the international organizations are talking now about nature-based solutions. So if you want to produce something, you have to think before not only to the effects that this production will have in nature, on ecosystem and whatever, but that from nature we can understand how to produce, how to live, how to work, and this is, I think, a huge revolution on our point of view. And so I can say once more we are nature.
Speaker 4:Damla, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Well, I think we shouldn't count nature as something, an entity that is out of us. I mean humanity and nature. No, we are part of nature and we are part of this life. So I think it is a little bit of egoist to apart ourselves and say we, the humanity, are protecting the nature. But I think we shall find new ways and new narratives that can remind the people that we are actually an integrated part of that nature and we have to learn to live in harmony once more perfect answer, right?
Speaker 4:what's your next question? What do you want to move on to next?
Speaker 3:as always, I want to go to economics, and we've had a good many moments on the podcast where positive change is critically undermined by extractivist market economics that fossils, fails to account for injustice, human rights, climate or nature laws and also deepens the inequalities, as we know. So our campaigns can, of course, make a difference, but do we need to also lobby and work for a new kind of economics? Who has any thoughts on that? And I want to go to maybe Michael first.
Speaker 8:Well, yes, we just went through a B Corp process with our agency, so you scan the practice and the impact of your company socially and environmentally. That's a good choice to do that, because you question your own habits and I think this is a road for several companies, for a lot of companies. We're talking about with an association in Germany which organizes all the sustainable companies together. It has 700 members at the moment, so it's not that big. And we're talking about a new narrative for economy which is not built on growth, growth, growth, but on a post-growth idea. We don't have it now because this is well sort of a million-dollar question. Our system is dominated by growth and get profit out of business and maximum of profit, and we don't talk about the profit we give to the people, to our societies or to the environment. So it is connected with the question before what is your company doing for the environment? What is your company doing for a democratic and liberal society that is open for different perspectives?
Speaker 3:And I think only in this diversity a good economy can grow and and be successful in the future well, there is also the question of how to balance, because it is impossible for anyone to ignore the economics, so we need new theories and new narratives on it, I think and for that I really want to turn to alex, because he's always full of new ideas and the upcoming trends about the new theories that are around. So, alex, blue economy, green economy, new economy what is the trending topic at this?
Speaker 7:Well, I think there are two perspectives to that. And what you mentioned earlier is we cannot ignore economy. This is not completely correct. The planet can ignore the economy very easily. So very often we think of sustainability as a concept of pillars and we have the pillar of the economy, the pillar of society, the pillar of the environment, but in reality these are not equal and a much better scheme that I have seen has.
Speaker 7:Well, if you want nature or the planet as the infrastructure on top of which we have the society and within which we have the economy, we often talk of the economy as the monetary economy, but in reality there's a lot of economy which is not monetary, for example, subsistence, agriculture, voluntary economy, the family In a family.
Speaker 7:You have lots of services that are completely for free but they do represent value, but you have the infrastructure of the planet. So, for example, at the moment in Greece we have a huge water issue, and when you have a huge water issue, you suddenly realize that you know it's not an issue that can very easily be solved with money. You need social agreements, you need to respect the laws of nature, the hydrological cycle. So you know, I think we need the kind of reality check that the monetary economy is fine, and some tools like green bonds, this kind of tools might be useful, but at the end of the day, we have to see, you know what's happening underneath our feet, because we need the ground there, we need the water there, we need you know all of this that we can address, let's say, with ecological footprint or other tools like that.
Speaker 4:Great, so do you want to take over.
Speaker 4:No, I do. I want to pick up on that and talk about, because I think we were just describing what is fashionably called regenerative capitalism. So I wondered whether we could turn to Sidiez and Ico Avantis about the work you do with brands in this space, because that's a really interesting part of the dynamic at the moment. Is ESG and CSR still happening in Europe? What about the European Green New Deal and what that's driving brands to achieve? How much is that landscape changing at the moment? Do you guys from CTS want to come in first?
Speaker 6:Thank you. We're talking about ESG and CSR and for the ESG part, we are more about compliance. So we are not transforming anything and it's just about about transformation. It's not anymore about taking another point of view, getting out of the GDP as an indicator, it's just about to say, oh, I did it and then it's okay for me.
Speaker 6:But the main thing is that we need to have a purpose. We also B Corp and we are a company with purpose, and each company needs to have a mission, a role in the society and the way the company is doing. Its mission is about transformation also, and we need to follow this kind of mission, which is part of what we said earlier with the nature. We are part of it and we need to protect ourselves. We don't need to protect the nature, we need to protect ourselves and we need to protect ourselves. We don't need to protect the nature, we need to protect ourselves. And for this, we need to transform. And so we're also getting back to CSR, as it's not just about compliance. So, talking to this kind of company, we are trying to say to them that don't go full on ESG, as you will not transform your business and the way you're doing business.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree with Mateo and Hugo from CDS and I see CSR focusing on transparency probably, and the thing is that with the recent changes to the European directives Omnibus proposal and that stuff I think we are missing an opportunity. Of course, the original proposal was maybe too complex for some companies, but the step back it's going to be too much back and it is against transparency and I think it will cost for sustainability people like us. We are losing some trust from people and from companies because they see there are no clear plans from Europe maybe so they maybe don't believe in Europe and in sustainability from strategy from Europe anymore. I hope it's not that bad.
Speaker 4:Now, Cristobal, you're amongst friends, so have you found the whole experience incredibly frustrating?
Speaker 2:It has been very frustrating. We are working a lot with companies doing sustainability reporting and it has been quite hard last month without a clear path and some of them have already invested money and they don't know what to do anymore.
Speaker 4:Kamla, thank you.
Speaker 3:Well, it always amazes me when we gather around the table or in a meeting and seeing that many diverse experiences throughout the DNS agencies in different regions, different cultures, different languages, but also different teams. So this is actually a massive learning opportunity for us and massive creative opportunity. So I want to go about the urban spaces and in this podcast we've had some amazing architects and urbanists talking about design, sustainable cities, sustainable transportation, working with people in nature. So I want to again once more turn to Germany. Annalena and Michael, I know that you work across a number of cities on our urban future. Where are the cities and city leaders in all of it? What do you see?
Speaker 9:That's a good question, just to give myself a bit more time. I feel like the city leaders are also in the middle of it. In a lot of city projects that we are doing, they take the time to talk to us, to the people, to really see where they want to go and how to improve the city. And what I find to be the central role of us, and as the communicators, is to really show the people in the city citizens what they want to have. Because, as communication gives you the possibility to show you what you want and really give a vision because if you don't know what is possible, you don't know that you want it and I feel like that's a good role we can have is to to show people, for example, in bonn or in herzongrad, aachen, all the different cities in germany uh, what could be and uh, what a beautiful future we could have. Uh, have in urban planning.
Speaker 8:May I add something I always say cities are the point where politics meets reality, and so you can talk a lot of intelligent stuff in the European level or in the national level, but you have to face the citizen in the city, who gives you an immediate feedback of what you're doing, and we have a lot of stuff we're dealing with in German cities at the moment. Of course, mobility is an issue that is occurring everywhere. If you do something for cyclists and for public transport and you take space away from cars, it's always an outrage. But if you look at the numbers, if you count the people, what transport mode they chose they choose in everyday life, you're in good cities. In Germany, for cars, around 30% and 70% to 75% use their feet, cycling or public transport. So there is already a majority of ways done in a sustainable way.
Speaker 8:But the crowd who is defending the free car drive and free car ride to the center of the city is very loud. So this is a communication challenge we are facing, and we have to deal with the house heating in in our cities. We change the house heating in germany at the moment and we we try to implant um well, a mini, mini power plants close to the people, taking heat out of taking heat out of the earth and build all this infrastructure which leads to the individual houses. And this is also a very big communication challenge to explain to the people what is happening with all these construction plants in the cities and why it is necessary and why it is good for them. So back to Annalena. First of all, you need the vision what city do you like to have? And then explain why this change and these obstacles in everyday life are necessary for a period of change, to make it better after that.
Speaker 4:You have to see the future you want before you and then desire it. I'm very relieved it ended up there. At one point, Michael, I thought you were talking about small module nuclear reactors, which was going to freak me out a lot.
Speaker 9:I wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 4:So I have a last round of comments. I want everybody to talk about something I think is quite a signature of all of our work, which is playfulness and emotion gamification. I think we have a lot of fun. It's a serious topic saving the world. We have a lot of fun. Watch out, nicola. I the world, we have a lot of fun. Watch out, nikolai, I'm coming to you in a second. I think you are on the edge of having too much fun with the work you do, so tell us about some of your projects and the playfulness in them.
Speaker 11:Yeah, in Silovo we always try to have fun doing our work. Let's say that I think that this kind of topics, this kind of fields, view that we are creators and we are designers. I think that our job is no longer to give people answers or solutions, but I think that through the playground, let's say through some activities that could be unconventional For example, we organize a cinema festival, we organize some bike rides, some activities on the territories but I think that our mission is to make people understand what kind of questions they can make to the politics, for example, so what kind of values they want to be resembled from the politics. So maybe now we need to stop giving people solutions, but make them clear what kind of questions they have the right to make to the politics.
Speaker 4:Have fun with that Exactly.
Speaker 8:Who else wants?
Speaker 4:to come in. Who's got a thought? Alex, you go first. Don't mind if I go down.
Speaker 7:Well, one campaign, let's say, we've had in the recent last couple of years is with Henkel, and it's for it's called Fair Play, or in Greek it's made Clean Play, which, giving that it's a brand of detergents, actually works quite well, and it has to do. It's a campaign against bullying for children, and children have a lot of fun. So they made it with football. You know players and celebrities and they get to play a lot and at the end of the day, I mean this is how the message gets across. You know, the negation of bullying is not bullying, it's having fun together. So that, I think, is the best way to do it.
Speaker 6:Igor, yeah, only one sentence, but you said earlier that start with making the group you want to change happy. So it's about happiness, because you need to make them happy about what will happen at the end, and that's the main point, and that's why it's joyful and it's about happiness.
Speaker 4:I love that. Yeah, no, let's face it, pissed off, people don't make change happen. Well, they can, I guess, if you're starting a revolution. But if you want to make behavior change happen, you can't just make people feel guilty or sad or depressed. It's just not going to work because you have to make happiness anybody else. Christoph, you are the very living embodiment of fun. Um, so, before damla wraps us up with our last question, what's your view on how we should make people feel?
Speaker 12:Well, actually, of course, let's have a really to act and react as a human, responsible person, willing and daring to go into our inner ship and our emotion or sensation really to be the most aligned with. You know the reality, and the reality is, on one side, a kind of nightmare, the way human beings are behaving all around the world the majority it's really, I'm afraid of that. But the shiny part is that, indeed, I'm still facing great nature in my country, I'm still having some so nice, lovely friends, I'm still loving my wife having healthy kids. This is the shiny part of the life and which is giving me so much joy and, of course, being related with good thinking and people willing to go in the same direction is well, just great.
Speaker 4:Well, that's beautiful. Simonetta, I think you want to say something.
Speaker 10:Well, that's beautiful. Simonetta, I think you want to say something. Firstly, I want to ask a question, because I'm back to the happiness. Are we really able to be happy?
Speaker 4:now, that's my question, difficult one Pass the mic to Cristobal. Are you able to be happy?
Speaker 10:of course we should be you are able to do it.
Speaker 2:I'm trying hard. I'm trying hard and I think personally, I have been through a kind of personal transformation in the last years, so I learned how to make happiness coming from small things. That was a major change. If you are all day, all day, thinking about the climate crisis and all the bad stuff, obviously you will not be very happy, but you need to carry on.
Speaker 3:I may add something on this. I do understand Simonetta's question and I ask that every day, because we are sometimes happy and sometimes living with the guilt that we cannot really do and change some things in the world, especially with what's going on at the moment in ukraine, in israel, in gaza, in palestine, everywhere. But I truly and sincerely believe that keeping on the smile and trying to be happy in small moments, whereas still carrying the responsibility of being aware, being in solidarity and trying to do our best to make a better world, is not only an act of self-preservation and survival, but also our responsibility. We have to keep that hope alive by always reminding us and everyone else smiles and happiness are there too, and if we can work hard, we can just get them, maybe Steve.
Speaker 10:So the second question is, after all, this answer yes, we can be responsible happy, or we can be responsible with happiness, with a smiling. That is not, in fact, a question, it's a sentence that comes from what we are saying. And this is, I think, a big issue because, yes, me too I feel, let's say, ashamed when I think all is happening in these days, in these months, in these years. But, yes, so we have to cultivate the hope in a way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, michael.
Speaker 8:Yeah, well, I think it's our virtue to keep the ability for happiness. If you look at, well, this special kind of people like Trump or the fascist party in Germany or anywhere else in the world, they don't have fun. Look at their faces, they express hate and bad vibrations. So this is not moving the world in the right direction. And, as I told yesterday on the conference, I confront this flood the zone with shit from Bannon in the US with the sentence flood the zone or flood the city with confidence. And this means you have to spread a certain kind of happiness and believe that there is a chance for a better future, chance for a better future. And well, we have to do it with a smile because, steve, you said once one of the first rules of sustainable communication is start with a smile, because then you have a good entree, uh, with people you're talking with and you bring them in a constructive and in a in an open-minded point of view.
Speaker 4:Thank you, michael. Well, quite often at this point, damla, in the podcast, I usually would pretentiously quote Antonio Gramsci, but I'm not going to. I'm going to actually use the very robust piece of English vernacular which is the challenge of modernity. To slightly quote Gramsci is to not let the fuckers grind you down, and that's the important thing. So should we do the last question in the round? No, I am. I know you want me to stop. I'm going to do it. So our network is ironically called Do Not Smile, because we know we need sustainability to be something that brings happiness into the world. For those of you who have been on the podcast before, you have to come sustainability to be something that brings happiness into the world. For those who've been on the podcast before, you have to come up with a different answer. We want one word, and it's an object, place or person that always makes you smile. Ready, okay, I'm gonna pass the mic around matcha obviously my children, obviously.
Speaker 5:Um talking about children, I think we also have to stay positive for us, or the next generations, and I try to. This is an important thing, I think.
Speaker 6:I think that we are doing it to make people and to make the life in the future happy. So I'm happy it to make people and to make the life in the future happy. So I'm happy when I make people happy.
Speaker 7:The previous time I had said hedgehogs, so now I will say waterfalls.
Speaker 8:Well, I would say Pippi Lothar Langstrumpf in German I don't know how her name is spelled in other languages, but Pippi Langstockings. She's very good in funny sentences, which gives you happiness.
Speaker 9:I would say, for me it's the forest, because it's kind of an escape of where we are in reality. It's also our responsibility to keep it healthy and working. But still, when you're there you're happy and it's quiet and it just makes me happy.
Speaker 2:I would say I always have a smile in my face when I see children playing, just playing. You look at that, and it's like we should still just playing.
Speaker 10:You look at that, and it's like we should still be playing, if I think, a lot of things make me happy. If I have to choose, I would prefer the wind. Wind makes me happy.
Speaker 11:I think that the most important thing that makes me happy is my dog, of course, because she never asked me about climate crisis and solution for that.
Speaker 4:Christophe, what about? And everybody has just failed my one word rule there, by the way. Hey, Christophe, what about you? And everybody has just failed my one word rule there, by the way.
Speaker 12:Hey, christophe. What about you? What always makes you smile? My one word is love. Love, as a colleague of mine was reminding me this morning, will still be stronger than any bad stuff any bad stuff Beautiful.
Speaker 4:So, Damla, we pulled it off. A group podcast session. Not done that before Slight edge of the seat sort of moment, but there you go. Do you want to close us out?
Speaker 3:So thanks to everyone who has listened to our Good Guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile network of agencies.
Speaker 4:And make sure you listen to future episodes, where we'll be talking to more amazing people about how we can make the world a better place through creativity. So see you, damla Bye, see you.
Speaker 12:Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability Hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
