GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Radical Listening Indonesia, with Nur Febriani
In this episode we talk to Nur Febriani (Febri), whose organisation Yayasan Alam Sehat Lestari (ASRI) is revolutionising how we think about protecting biodiversity by connecting human wellbeing directly to forest and planetary health.
As Director of Resource Mobilisation at ASRI, Febri brings her public health background to tackle an ambitious challenge: saving Indonesia's critical rainforests while simultaneously improving local communities' lives. Born in West Kalimantan herself, she passionately describes how Indonesia—home to the world's third-largest rainforest—faces mounting climate threats from unpredictable weather patterns to rising sea levels, yet often receives insufficient global attention despite its crucial importance for planetary health.
What makes ASRI truly revolutionary is their "radical listening" methodology. Rather than imposing solutions, they begin by asking forest communities a simple but profound question: "As guardians of this precious rainforest valuable to the whole world, what would you need to continue protecting it while thriving yourselves?" This reciprocity-based approach has led to remarkable programs addressing multiple challenges simultaneously—from healthcare clinics that reduce logging (previously done to pay medical bills) to sustainable agriculture training and chainsaw buyback initiatives.
Listen in and discover how this Indonesian organisation is creating a blueprint for global sustainability where both forests and people can thrive together.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello everyone. You are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from MIR Agency, Istanbul, and.
Speaker 3:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen planetary health organisation that works together with communities living in and around tropical rainforests in West Kalimantan, indonesia.
Speaker 3:So, a winner of the Ashton Awards here in the UK, which is how we got to know about you, february, we're going to talk to the Director of Resource Mobilisation, as Damla said, who is new at February ASRI I'm going to cut the name short because otherwise I'll make a huge mess of it february um works to build healthy, prosperous communities and sustain nature in an indonesian region that is critical to our planet's biodiversity, and you, february, are a planetary health advocate and a national geographic explorer. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to Damla and myself.
Speaker 4:Sure, Thank you for inviting me to this podcast. It's an honour for me and I really love to share how we are doing here and then what we can share tell the words about what we are doing here. So my name is Febri. My full name is Nur Febriani. I origin from West Borneo, Indonesia.
Speaker 2:We always love to hear the backstory of the people we're inviting, so tell us how an explorer devotes her life to the forests.
Speaker 4:I'm origin from West Borneo, indonesia, and my background is public health. So my bachelor degree was in public health and then I studied development studies. So after that I work more in the health sector. But then still being born in Kalimantan or Borneo, still being born in um kalimantan or borneo, where people will think, okay, what do you think about kalimantan or borneo? You probably you will think about forest and that is what, um, how I envision just imagining if there is no forest anymore in Kalimantan. So what will people think about Kalimantan?
Speaker 4:I have this feeling of wanting to contribute on forest protection because of that, because I was born in Kalimantan and then although as someone who has a public health background, working in health sector.
Speaker 4:But then when I saw this actually it came from the advertisement when I found ASRI, so I learned about this organization and I think, wow, this organization is from where I was born and grew, but I didn't know about it. I was born and grew but I didn't know about it. But this is really a good organization with a lot of achievement and impact. So I would like to also contribute and this is perfect because it really has an interconnection approach where health and human health and environmental health, especially the forest health, is connected. We're working on it together, so I think this is a perfect way for me, as someone who has not a background in something that is more closer to the forest or conservation, to contribute. So that is how I start, and until now it's been seven years um at austria and I just really love what we are doing here and what it's amazing february.
Speaker 3:I mean I I've, um, because of the ashton awards, uh, I've been able to discover your organization. Your work looks absolutely amazing. It's so inspirational, um, so let me ask you you you've been sort of focused on indonesia's role in biodiversity and the global planet, our planet's global health. Can you paint, as a kind of big picture view of how indonesia is being affected by climate change and what it means for the local forest communities that you work with?
Speaker 4:I think this is something that is being faced anywhere globally. But from Indonesia perspective, I've seen okay okay, maybe some, I'm not the climate expert, but this is from where I see that something that is more often happen in Indonesia, for example, we can see and we experience the unpredictable weather patterns. This obviously affects the communities. For example, from a lot of rain, doing restoration, we collect seedlings, and it is also affected by the unpredictable weather pattern because we are not sure when we can harvest the seeds from the trees. So that's also affecting our work, affecting our work. But other than that, for example, we've often see prolonged drought season without rain and this increase the risk for forest fire during the forest fire, for example. Of course it will affect, it can lose the biodiversity and then also humans will be affected from the smoke. So it really affects our lives and people who live around the coastal area, for example, it is clear that they are facing the risk from the rising sea level and also the saltwater intrusion. So it affects their life also and especially for the farming.
Speaker 2:Well, a little bit of a background and also a question for you. So Indonesia is the world's largest archipelagic. I think I spelled that correctly.
Speaker 3:You did well there.
Speaker 2:Okay, archipelagic state consisting of more than 17,500 islands and, as you mentioned, the rise of sea levels threatens your domain severely. How are the adaptation efforts going in the region? Is there a clear path? Is there a strategy about what to do in this crisis?
Speaker 4:Okay, although I would say that I'm not the climate expert, but this is from what I knew. Indonesia has, the government has this strategy called to mitigate and adapt with the climate change, but that is at policy level, from the action we often see like government. For example, because of this risk of rising sea level, government often invests in seawalls and also the flood management systems, while for us, part of the community, usually it is more on the mangrove restorations and then also how we can support the livelihood that can be adapting to the climate change. For example, at ASHRI we are working with the community to support the livelihood and we are doing also some workshop with the community. It's called the Participatory Assessment of Climate and Disaster Risk, so we sit with the community and listing all the risks and then also how to cope with those risks, the strategy in participatory way as well as at the community level.
Speaker 4:We are doing a lot of investment on nature-based solutions, like trying to adapt with climate change without further harming the environment, for example, working with the community to how to improve the agriculture, like with the sustainable agriculture training, and then we're doing also the agroforestry projects, for example, planetary health educations. So things like that we want to support the community livelihood. We have a project called Chainsaw By-Back Program. So this is also how the community can stop logging and then having a better, more sustainable job. So is there a clear path? I'm not so sure about it. Sometimes policies are at a top level and sometimes to be implemented there are big gaps. Usually to the grassroots level is not easy, and especially for people, communities in rural and forest areas, limited resources, limited economic pressures, access to livelihood. So those are the challenges in, I think, in mitigating and adapting to the climate change.
Speaker 3:Well, february, all I can say, if it makes you feel any better. The gap between high level policy and action and delivery on the ground exists everywhere. So it's not just in forest communities. I can walk down the street here in Manchester and it's not happening either. So it's a just in forest communities. I can walk you down the street here in manchester and it's not happening either. So it's a common problem bridging that gap. I wanted to come back to, uh, indonesia, uh and um, I don't know but what you think down, I think it's. It's kind of strange that we we've not talked about indonesia on this podcast at all, and yet you're this um country with all these incredible islands, varied geography, sea, coastal systems, montane forests, um, and you're the, the world's fourth most populous nation, um, and so, thinking globally, I think I know you think a lot, don't you, about planetary health and the role that indonesia has to play in all of that. Do you think indonesia gets the attention it deserves on the international stage, both not just on climate, actually, but also in biodiversity?
Speaker 4:um, I think it, it is something that should be improved. Um, indonesia is the country with the I think it's third in the world with the biggest rainforest there, but still also there are many challenges that also have happening and going on. So, then makes it more sense to be more involved in this agenda, like global agenda, so that, for example, so that the government has a better commitment also to protect what's remaining, because if it keeps decreasing, so we will lose this. So we need that freezing, so we will lose this. So we need that.
Speaker 4:Indonesia has something that is really crucial and it's here, but then we need to be better also in protecting what we have. So, with involving more not only the government, actually, but also the IPLCs, the indigenous people, local communities, to be sharing and bringing the best practices right from the area where you all are talking about, the forest, and this is the people who are really living in that area, we should have been more heard and listened what we are doing. Maybe we can share that and then also this can be replicated to some other places. So I think, and also that will bring an open, more opportunity for these efforts to be supported globally.
Speaker 2:You just brought me to my next question. I know, steve, we are mesmerized with Indonesia and since we found you, we want to ask a lot of things about Indonesia. But I also want to take us to ASRI, your organization, because you're doing really amazing work there. So Alam Sehat, lestari, or ASRI, the organization you lead, based their programs of radical listening, being heard, a methodology in which you listen to the rainforest communities and implement the programs they design. So can you elaborate this methodology a little bit? How does it work?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So this is what's interesting, and I think sometimes it's different from other approach. Typically or yeah, usually the organization already has something in mind like, okay, what we will do in that area, this is the program, that we will bring this program to this area. But what Asri has been doing, before we are going to an area with intervention, we will first listen to the communities. It's really like inviting people sitting down with them, because we believe that the indigenous people, local communities, are the true experts of their needs and challenges. So we want to listen from them, because they are the ones who live right there at the center, the forest area. So we want to listen from them. So we ask them, because we want them to design the solution, because they, they will know it, they know it, we believe it. Um, and then what we will do is we ask them.
Speaker 4:So this is the question that we usually ask. We ask like this you are all the guardians of this precious rainforest that is very valuable to the whole world. What would you need as a thank you from the world community so that you can continue to protect it and thrive yourselves? So that is the question that we ask the communities, because this radical listening concept is based on reciprocity. So if they help the world by protecting the forest, the world community in the other part of the country or the other countries can support them with what they need to be able to keep protecting the forest. So that is the base of the radical listening.
Speaker 4:It's an ongoing process as well to them, after several years, to check whether we are doing good with the solution that we talked in the beginning and is it exactly what you are hoping based on that consensus at that time. Is it going well or not? And then so it is an iterating. We have that iteration process and adaptation. And so it is an iterating. We have that iteration process and adaptation. In my opinion, this radical listening is powerful because it replaces assumption. Sometimes we assume these people need this so that we come with this support, but maybe that is not the only thing or maybe that's not the priority for them. So it replaces assumption with real experience and real knowledge from the people. It respects their wisdom of the local community. It creates a buy-in because the solution is coming from them.
Speaker 3:So it will be more long-term trust and also sustain the impact wow, every I don't mind saying, actually I'm I'm a little bit blown away by your radical listening approach. I think it sounds incredible. Um, I want to take let's stay on ASRI and the organization and just I wanted to ask you because you, you said you've been with the organization seven years. I think you said February, didn't you? And so you, you've been executive director, you're currently resource mobilization director and you've helped to take ASRI to a different level, I think, certainly in terms of its reach and awareness, and you've got online platforms and partnerships with NGOs and government and capacity building provided by National Geographic. So that message that you bring which is inspirational, by the way, of forest and human health can you tell us a little bit about ASRI's strategy to achieve that amazing increase in profile and impact?
Speaker 4:Yeah, perhaps I would like to share with you the background. When I came to ASRI, as I said before, I didn't know about ASHRI until I found the vacancy and then I did the check and then I was like whoa, this is really cool, why didn't I never heard about it before? So but then I found that ASHRI has a lot of potencies, potentials. So when I came, no, first about ASHRI and then, of course, about the planetary health Like I didn't know about that before until I found ASHRI you know, like the planetary health message, so how people can really work on this together. And it is interesting because when I came to ASHRI, I was like impressed because the health workers worked together with conservationists, educators, communicators so this is really interesting in one building. So I never found an organization like that before. So when I came as an executive director, like seven years ago, years ago, I first uh, what I did was invest in the marketing and communication, invest uh, build the team and then, um, invest on the resource uh person and also the capacity building, because I saw ASHRI has abundance of data and positive stories to tell.
Speaker 4:Ashri has a unique approach and ASHRI has also been recognized nationally or internationally, so this is something that can be leveraged with those modalities through online platforms, through global publication, in partnership with our affiliate organization, health in Harmony, or with other partners, for example Ashden, so the alliances with organizations such as Ashden or the National Geographic. It's really developed bringing these messages to a more wider audience and I think so the strategy is really like bringing those that is already been at ASHRI the data, the positive stories, the approach, the unique approach, the recognition, so all those sharing it, with partnership with the government, with the other NGOs, and then with other organizations, I think with media like you. So that's, I think, something that is really helpful in this bringing these messages to more wider audience well.
Speaker 2:Thank you, february, because you just made me realize that, as responsible communication professionals is actually needed. We are useful because, even though you have the unique approach and abundance of reports and content, you have to communicate them, and that makes a huge difference when you pass the message. Thank you very much. You just renewed my belief in my work by coming to ASRI's work. So your programs cover a wide range, from sustainable housing to agriculture, mobile clinics which was the origin of asri health clinics and ecosystem recovery camps. Can you tell us what binds all of these different programs together and how do you create impact?
Speaker 4:yeah, I, I think planetary health is the center of it. So planetary health concept the fundamental belief that our well-being, biodiversity loss, zoonosis, diseases, so a lot of our life actually will be affected if we cannot maintain the forest health. So this concept is related to many factors relate to livelihood, people livelihood if people don't have a sustainable livelihood, people will go to the forest and cut the trees. So that is really related. And then the education if people don't know about how precious is the forest, people will be easily cut and destroy the forest. But if they know, it's not only for it's their presence, but also it will be really, it is really important to them and to the world, so that people will still will be more, uh, grateful on that and then we'll protect that.
Speaker 4:So, uh, and also like people's health. We found in the beginning like many people had to do logging because they couldn't have money to access for healthcare. So this interconnection that we want to address by doing a lot of things at the same time so that it can bring impact more effectively. Rather than we only work on restoration, for example, or we only work on healthcare provision, we better do that together at the same time so that the impact will be more clear and then also sustained. Yeah, I think that's what's behind us, because we all believe that our health, our well-being, depends on this environmental health.
Speaker 3:Well, febre, you make an incredibly, incredibly holistic, impactful and dynamic process sound super easy, which is crazy, because I'm sure it isn't. We are out of time. I hate to say this, I hate to be the one to do this, but we have one more question for you, february, which we always ask, which is um. Our network is ironically called do not smile. Um, because we know we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world. So tell us what object, place or person always makes you smile.
Speaker 4:I will say from person that now, a person like you, right, why? It's because a person like you who takes action, to listen and to share stories from this born and run forest to the world. If there is no people like you, then it will only be a thing that we are doing in our place and, yeah, it should be heard and you help us in sharing these stories. Thank you.
Speaker 3:No, thank you, Fabry. I'm feeling a little bit. I don't know about you, Damla, I'm feeling a little bit emotional right now. Why are we on screen? Why aren't we in a room together? And we could just have a big hug, couldn't we?
Speaker 1:That would be so lovely.
Speaker 3:Well, fabry it's been extraordinary talking to you, absolutely amazing. It's been an absolute pleasure and I'm absolutely blown away. I also think and we don't say this to everybody we talk to but there are elements of your practice that I think anybody anywhere in the world should be learning from and repeating, because what you're doing is absolutely amazing. Damla, before I break into tears, um, would you like to wrap us up?
Speaker 2:yes, steve. So thanks to everyone who has listened to our good guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile network of agencies.
Speaker 3:And make sure you listen to future episodes. We'll be talking to more amazing people about how we can work together to create a more sustainable future. So, february Damla, see you soon.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye-bye electronic good geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS network.
