GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
The Climate Gender Nexus, with Janna Araeva
Discover the powerful connection between gender equality and climate justice with our latest guest, Janna Araeva, Programme Coordinator of Bishkek Feminist Initiatives in Kyrgyzstan.
Janna shares her unexpected journey into gender-positive development and highlights the critical need for gender-sensitive content in media representation. We talk about the harsh realities faced by women and girls during severe flooding and displacement, and learn about the urgent need for inclusive approaches in climate negotiations and disaster response.
We look at the challenges feminists face in gaining representation on the global stage, exposing the reluctance to integrate vital gender perspectives into decision-making processes. Listen into our engaging conversation with Janna, as we celebrate collaboration and the potential power of communications in delivering a sustainable and just future.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 3:Hello, hello everyone, you are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from Mira Agency, istanbul, and.
Speaker 4:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
Speaker 3:So in this episode we're going to talk to Jana Areva, the Programme Coordinator of Bishkek Feminist Initiatives, kyrgyzstan. The Bishkek Feminist Initiatives are a group of feminist activists in Bishkek, kyrgyzstan, as I told you now, based on the principles of collective emancipation, solidarity, mutual support and non-violence. Jana has been the program coordinator of the initiatives for six years now and works on the integrated issues of gender, climate equality and peace.
Speaker 4:So an expert on women's rights and media, jana assists several UN bodies on gender, climate, equality and peace. So, an expert on women's rights and media, jana assists several UN bodies on gender climate and focuses on social justice and climate justice. So, jana, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to Damma and myself.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. It's a great pleasure to meet you guys. It's a lovely pleasure to meet you too. So first of all, jana, tell us about your own journey. What made you focus on gender positive development? The group with which I'm working now they needed someone who had some experience in operating and managing the non-governmental organizations and it's something you have to have to be experienced in. So they invited me and I thought I will stick around for some while, help them and then move on. And it happened so that I got really much involved into that.
Speaker 2:And working on the issue of gender equality and especially women's and girls' rights, has revealed lots of problems which lie beneath just the terminology of gender equality, because usually gender equality is perceived like, oh, we have to have 50-50 representation and that's it.
Speaker 2:But it turns out it's a lot more deeper question and issue that not many people can truly understand, and the reasonings and the cultural background and stuff like that. But as I have a media background, I mostly have been focusing on the media representation of women and like gender sensitive content creation and stuff like that. And then at some point I understood during some discussions and some roundtables I understood that almost nobody understood that climate justice is also very much related to women issues, and there I had to jump in because it's very crucial and it's a highly important issue which is overlooked by many people, by majority of agencies, by majority of experts and most of the climate people. They ignore gender issues, especially here in Central Asia, and many people just are not capable of understanding the nexus between gender equality, like women's rights, girls' rights, and climate issues, and especially when it comes to decision-making in climate, budgeting and negotiation of those processes.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll tell you how Janna is a doer. I mean, if there is no one to do it, she's going to do it herself. So that's it. She jumped two feet in the matter and she started working on that, it seems, but let's see the picture there. Janna, if it's possible, could you portray the status of women and the climate crisis in Kyrgyzstan at the moment? How is the region being affected by the crisis, and especially women?
Speaker 2:Well, this year it's not the first year when we have more floods than it used to be, first year when we have more floods than it used to be but this year was actually very critical because of the floods, especially in a very vulnerable region of Kyrgyzstan which was previously affected by a water conflict on the border between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, and it has been going on for many years because of the shortage of water resources, which are also resulting because of the climate issues too. But this year it was very severe and we had life losses and many people have been displaced because of those floods and this turned out into. It showed many vulnerabilities and our unpreparedness in salvation of those and mitigation of those crises, especially when it comes to young girls and women and people with disabilities, because when those people are displaced to some secure places, it's usually schools and school sports, like gyms and stuff like that. So in those places, the authorities are unable to provide the safe space for women and girls and also accessibility to people with disabilities, and this makes those places feel very hostile to girls and women because they cannot take showers safely, they cannot go to the toilet safely, girls and women, because they cannot take showers safely. They cannot go to the toilet safely and many agencies, such as UNICEF in Kyrgyzstan, for example, they made surveys with people who were dislocated there and those girls told that they don't feel safe going to the toilet and they have to take their friends or relatives together with them.
Speaker 2:It's just one tiny example, but, for example, when it comes to the menstrual health and any health issues related to women, globally, women's health is overlooked a lot.
Speaker 2:You know, most of the health standards are based on men and therefore in countries like Kyrgyzstan, no one is even thinking about the effect of climate change on women's health. It's like, whenever I go to a roundtable or to some discussion if I manage to squeeze in there, because climate people do not like gender people they usually try to ignore us and UN agencies are like oh my god, it's just like gender is simple stuff, so we don't need so many gender experts in climate negotiations. So therefore, whenever I can squeeze in or someone from the UN agencies are wise enough and they do push me through that firewall, then I'm trying to raise the issue of women's health and under budgeting of women's health and ignorance from many organizations when it comes to women's rights and also the beneficiaries from those affected regions. They also said that women in those communities they are not allowed to take place in decision-making process, and that's a huge issue.
Speaker 4:So yeah, jana, I'm conscious I interrupted you a bit there, which is a classic patriarchal move, so, but I did want to ask you a question, and I should say, when it comes to gender and climate, we are really pleased to be talking about this today. So on this podcast, you are very, very welcome to be the gender activist and the feminist around the table. So, from the way you described all of that and the impacts of climate and the climate crisis on vulnerable communities, and how women are perhaps most exposed to some of those risks, we are in one of those classic situations, aren't we, jana? Where the people who are least responsible for the climate crisis are the ones that feel it the hardest. And so we are in a classic justice situation, and I know you're in discussion with several international institutions, aren't you, on climate justice issues, and so could you tell us for you what would the vision of a fair and just transition to a climate safe world look like?
Speaker 2:I believe that it has to involve those people who would be the most affected, and especially indigenous, like local communities, the grassroots communities, and it has to take in consideration the opinions of the most vulnerable population, which are women and people with disabilities, in our case in Kyrgyzstan. And unfortunately, even the UN agencies do not look at that issue from this perspective. You know all those high-level meetings and negotiations like COP and IPCC and stuff like that. They are just lacking enough gender perspective, because usually all those events about gender equality are just side events. They are not mainstreamed, and that is said.
Speaker 2:And I think that most of them, like majority of those organizations, be it international organizations or summits or whatever majority of those organizations, be it international organizations or summits or whatever, they focus around flirting with the capitalists, with those people who actually provide all the input into a carbon footprint. But unfortunately we do not have, as women or as activists, much input into what is going on, which is actually injustice because we will have to suffer a lot. Those billionaires and oligarchs and heads of governments. They will finally find some beautiful spot which is less affected, or just I don't know. Maybe I hope not, but I hope it doesn't go unnoticed for them. But the thing is that we still face the tragedy of sacrificing so many lives of innocent people just for the sake of some people getting rich and being not bothered by the agenda.
Speaker 3:Well, it seems like it's also a matter of who owns the word, actually, because when we're talking about the international organizations and the big, big, big organizations, the activist agenda has lost its foot a little bit, especially in the last COP, and we were always. We were talking about it for a time now in this podcast too, so we had to get that word back and we have to get that word with feminist initiative, as I recall, and when we look at our region, because when we're talking about the international policies, we're talking about a medium that can be applied or be taught everywhere in the world, but also it has to be localized to local cultures, local needs and local, maybe, response. So when we are talking about our region, it is not the same or it's not totally compatible with the international agenda. So how do you think the feminist initiative and activism can take place in this big, big discussion and have the floor with sustainable, just transition, sustainable future and a just transition to net zero economy? Where do you see the opportunities for feminist collectives here?
Speaker 2:Well, this is very tricky and important question. Well, to be realistic, that will never happen in like future, in closest future. Even un agencies are not interested in that because they are just um, it seems like they are protecting the interests of, uh, the, those in power and those uh, because it's all based on the money, donations and their phrases. No one will donate the money for their programming, and I understand that. But the feminist movement is very active and it doesn't depend on which region we are from. Feminists from all around the world are very active actually in this agenda, but no one is allowing anyone from the feminist movement to speak openly at the table.
Speaker 2:So it's usually side events. It's usually feminists from all around the world. They gather online, they write the suggestions and like commands to all those papers, resolutions and stuff. But no one says like, okay, let us have one feminist per region, for example, and let's sit all together and you women talk and tell us what we need to do, because everyone is just like, oh, those people are crazy, they walk, people are crazy and stuff like that. So basically, no one wants us there and UN is not doing their job pushing this agenda. Actually, they are trying to, but they're not doing.
Speaker 2:Well, they could work harder on that and they could actually place feminists and gender experts there and say, okay, now you have to listen to them, everyone, because it's developing and rights of 50% of world population. It's not just like a group of crazy activists. No, we are representing the rights of half of the world and that's the irony of all this. Talk about climate justice or social justice. We talk about so much, but when it comes to real action, all the feminist movements and all the gender experts they have a huge capacity in that and they have huge expertship in that, but everyone is just like, ok, make a side event there during those budget negotiations, during all the negotiations which concern our rights and which concern the lives of all the women in the world, regardless of from which region we come.
Speaker 4:So, janet, oh my goodness me, I think my head is going to explode. I think it is. I think my head's going to explode. I've got so much to talk to you about. I mean because if you do take a step back I mean as well as you you should have a place around that table for that discussion.
Speaker 4:But I mean, let's face it, you know, extractivist, capitalist economics is right at the heart of the climate crisis, and it's exactly the same patriarchal mindset that has completely denuded the natural world, that has led to runaway climate change, that has no value for equity with future generations. We're tackling with the same issue, aren't we? This nexus of climate and gender is, in many ways, the same problem, and what I find really interesting and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this is we sit at a political moment in time, a critical juncture, where there is a genuine pushback now against gender equity, against woke ideas and progressive politics and net zero and fighting the climate crisis, and we're seeing tech bros in the United States ripping government pieces. So, if anything, we need solidarity now more than ever, don't we, between those of us fighting the climate crisis and those who are working for feminist justice. Sorry, that was me ranting. It wasn't even really a question, it was just me being annoyed and angry. But what do you think, jenna?
Speaker 2:oh, I totally agree with you. But we have to consider that there are lots of powers which do not want actually equality because it will prevent, like I mean uh, in this case it will prevent them from feeling powerful. I think it's disempowerment of those patriarchal men and structures. It's one part of the equation, but the other part of the equation is that international agencies are not actually doing enough to provide enough knowledge and information and education to women.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know many people in international organizations that lack any gender optics and they are women and you expect them to know that by default. But they are very patriarchal and misogynistic too and unfortunately they still hold some positions, and sometimes very high positions, in the international agencies which actually decide what's going to go on, especially in terms of budgeting and policymaking. Bright and brilliant feminists there, but it makes their work hard because you expect that solidarity, but there is not much solidarity there. They can it's very they can do like I mean, they sometimes perform beautifully and they make lots of great stuff and sometimes those policies are very gender sensitive and the budgeting is great and etc. But they have to do it with so much effort which could be actually done easier and in a shorter period, but it's constantly a fight against patriarchy, against oligarchy, against the totalitarianism and those autocratic governments.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a small example. For example, we had last year a Central Asian Youth Conference on Climate, or COY, here in Bishkek, and they were youth from everywhere in the region, even from Afghanistan, which is really cool to get someone from Afghanistan here. And unfortunately, the only agency which spoke about girls' rights in climate crisis and in the process of climate change was UNICEF, and it was an only presentation which was actually highlighting the things which are regarding women's rights in general, and the rest of the conference was very gender blind, Especially when I was surprised because we talk so much about gender mainstreaming in UN and etc. And when I asked the organizers like why is so gender blind? Like what's going on? And the organizer it's one of the angels here, so she said, well, but there were 50% of participants were women.
Speaker 3:That's what I love. 50% is woman. Okay, I always love to be the part of that 50% quota, but passing on. But I'm going to rattle it a little bit, like Steve, because what you said was important disempowering and swimming against the mainstream. Uh, as we do in sustainable communications and sustainability fight, or the climate activism, whatever you call it, we always have to swim against the mainstream. It is not growth but degrowth. Actually Don't grow anymore, you just sustain what you can do, or disempower the patriarchy, disseminate the power. So actually usually when we're talking about communication Steve, that's rattling to you we always say that, oh, talk on the positive side, don't make negative campaigns. But this negative is the positive we need. So I think we have to think about it and make a new campaign about the new positives of the negatives disempowerment, the degrowth, dissemination of power, whatever it is. So thank you, jana, for just opening up my mind to it in a enlightened, and I will ask gyokan to put a sound effect here, like ta-da on my head.
Speaker 3:But I have to ask you another question. Then you opened the door to it, so you worked on media issues before and for you. How does the international and regional media perform in addressing the climate justice? I mean, are they getting the climate story right?
Speaker 2:Oh my god Damla, you opened the Pandora's box.
Speaker 1:Don't get me started.
Speaker 2:It's a huge thing. So basically in the region and I work with lots of journalists because of the gender sensitive approaches and stuff like that, and I know because I'm a media person, I basically know many journalists and I attend trainings and stuff like that. So majority of the journalists they do not know much about the climate issues, like I mean basic climate issues and basic concepts of climate change and why it's going on and etc. Let alone the gender and climate and gender and climate justice. It's like very complex concept for them because no one actually cared about that.
Speaker 2:I've Googled about climate change articles because I needed some quotes from somewhere and I noticed that UNICEF have been posting about that since very long time ago, since 10 years ago, even in Kyrgyzstan, but the thing is that not many journalists are being educated on that issue. It's the first one and regardless of climate programs having a lot of budgeting nowadays, especially like last year, un started pushing the climate agenda and then Asia Development Bank and like everyone, including USAID, but USAID is not like there anymore, but everyone was pushing the climate agenda but mostly no one was talking about the climate justice. First and secondly, the climate perception among journalists in Kyrgyzstan is something like don't use bad fuel and the problem is in plastic. Like stop consuming plastic or producing plastic. And like we have so much plastic, oh, there is a landfill pollution and that's it.
Speaker 2:No one is actually educating those journalists much. There are some organizations, they try hard but they are not enough and there is no actual input of money into producing that mass communication like mainstream communication. They do researches but because of the absence of deep knowledge of the subject from the majority of journalists they cannot deep dive into the climate justice topic first. Second, they do not know from where to start. It's easier to talk about plastic and like the pollution. And third one is that there is not much financing. They do not have motivation to talk about that because media depends on financing and they could do much more about that. But it has to be complex solutions, not just providing one training a year and then expect everyone to talk about climate change.
Speaker 4:Well, jana, the media handling complexity and following the problem right the way back to its root cause. It's all over the world. It's a problem, so it's not just for you. And I hear you on the plastics. Do you know? What is getting me very annoyed at the moment is seeing how many times I see, you know, like in businesses or hotel rooms, you see a little sign saying you know, like in businesses or hotel rooms, you see a little sign saying small actions make a big difference. No, they really don't. We could all change our light bulbs and reuse our plastic bags, and there will still be a climate crisis in the morning. So I hear you, janet, I'm so this. We could go on talking for so long. It's been wonderful meeting you and and um and talking all of this through, but all good things do wrap up eventually. So I'm going to move us on to our final question, if that's okay. Um, which is our network, is ironically called. Do not smile, um. Because we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world.
Speaker 2:So I'd like to ask you what object, place or person always makes you smile oh, I love when we go to the remote villages to provide trainings to young girls, because they are so enthusiastic and they show some optimism to this perspective, because we are always so tired of having those long and useless discussions I mean fruitless discussions because we discuss a lot and then they say, oh, you're just activists, we don't care about your opinion. But when you see the enthusiasm in those young girls, teenage girls from the villages and you can understand that the hope is not lost and that makes me smile all the time.
Speaker 4:And well, and you've just made us smile and this is an audio only podcast, we don't put the video online, but Damla is, as we say in English, beaming from one side of her face to the other, so that's a big smile. Jenna, thank you so much for being with us. That's been a fascinating conversation. We've gone deep into the heart of the climate gender nexus and it's been really fascinating to talk to you, damla, over to you.
Speaker 3:So thanks to everyone who has listened to our Good Guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile network of agencies.
Speaker 4:And make sure you listen to future episodes, where we'll be talking to more amazing people about how we can work together to create a more sustainable future. So, Jana Damla, see you soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me Bye.
Speaker 1:Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability Hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
