GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Towards Regenerative, Responsible Soy, with Luiza Bruscato
This week we're talking to Luiza Bruscato, the Global Executive Director of the Roundtable on Responsible Soy (RTRS), as she shares her transition from environmental engineer to global leader in sustainable agriculture. We talk about the intricacies of soy production across the world, and the 108 indicators that guide sustainable soy production for RTRS, balancing environmental and social practices, and the diverse interests at play within the soy value chain.
As we navigate the world of regenerative agriculture, we explore the challenges of defining these practices across varied scales and geographies and the upcoming global RTRS conference in Belgium serves as a backdrop for discussing the impact of the European Union Deforestation Regulation on the industry, with its focus on traceability and sustainability.
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Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello everyone, you are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from Mir Agency, istanbul, and.
Speaker 3:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
Speaker 2:So in this episode we're going to talk to Luisa Bruscado, the Global Executive Director of the Roundtable on Responsible Soy, the body that supports growers and markets across the world to deliver responsible, deep frustration and conversion-free soy to the market.
Speaker 3:Well, well said, damla, you got through that perfectly. Louisa is based out of Sao Paulo and was previously Executive Director of the Global Roundtable on Responsible Beef and, for that, a sustainability analyst with BASF. So, louisa, thanks for joining us on the podcast.
Speaker 4:Oh, thank you very much for the invitation, Steve and Demla. It's a great opportunity to be here.
Speaker 3:Great. Well, we'd love to kick off with a little bit of your backstory. So if you could tell us a bit about your passion for sustainability and how you ended up becoming the leader of the Roundtable on Responsible Soy taking it into the future, tell us how you ended up becoming the leader of the roundtable on responsible soil taking it into the future. Tell us how you got here.
Speaker 4:Okay, great. Well, I'm an environmental engineer, so everything starts there in my graduation. And then, when I was in the middle of my graduation, it happened in Brazil. We were having this huge discussion regarding the Brazilian Forest Code, so it's all about deforestation, and the discussion was really hot that time and it came to my interest to work on that. So I had the opportunity to work in a city hall in Santo André it's a city close to Sao Paulo in Santo André it's a city close to Sao Paulo.
Speaker 4:And then after that, I started on BASF, working with agricultural cooperatives and the largest cooperatives in Brazil. They work with the product. The product is cereals and soy and other commodities. So I spent five years there working with educational programs for sustainability and also with reforesting programs with these cooperatives. So it was really interesting. I implemented a project with the largest coffee cooperative in the world, so it was an amazing job. That time I had the opportunity to visit many farms to get to know the Brazilian production. It went really well. And after that I spent seven years working with livestock. So it was a huge challenge, also because livestock in Brazil it's really it's still evolving, it's still developing. So there is a lot. There are a lot of problems and issues regarding traceability and management things, so it was an interesting work also. So I spent seven years working with that, traveling also many and visiting many farmers in Brazil and understanding this production.
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of experience there, and I think one program won't just cut it. So, luisa, embrace yourself. We're going to knock on your door again, but today our headline is responsible soy, and even though it is one of the world's largest commodities, many of our listeners will not be too familiar with soy. So will you tell us about how soy is produced, what RTRS does and what's included in the responsibility certification that you have created?
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, oh, it is kind of difficult to explain how soy is produced because I think it depends on where you're talking about and which country. For example, in Brazil we have huge, huge farms. It's completely different from the way they produce in India, for example, where we have more familiar agriculture. So the systems are different depending on where we talk about, but for sure, brazil and the us and china they are the three biggest producers in the world, so the production is quite extensive, so intensive and using a lot of area and demanding land for that. But of course, as I said, including when we talk about RTRS practices, so we include 108 indicators related to sustainable production. So from social aspects to environmental aspects, taking care of all the good practices on soil health, on environmental, like having legal reserves, forest reserves inside the farms and many other practices. So it's this huge number of indicators that we take care of.
Speaker 3:It's huge, isn't it? I don't think, damla, I don't think anybody gets it, until you've actually seen film or footage of soy farming in Brazil. It's just the biggest thing you can ever imagine. It's completely epic.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to follow up on that, Steve. I mean, when we say huge, we don't comprehend what huge is. So can you give us an example what huge is? I can? When we say huge, we don't comprehend what huge is, so can you give us an example of what huge is?
Speaker 4:I can maybe. Yeah, for example, comparing with cocoa production in the world nowadays, we have 10,000 hectares around 10,000 hectares of cocoa being produced yearly, and 10,000 hectares is an average farm for soy in Brazil.
Speaker 3:So yes, it's an average.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, I got my answer, steve, over to you 10,000 hectares of farm.
Speaker 3:That's a big farm. So I wanted to ask you, louise, about the partnership that you convene at RTRS, because one thing that I really like about RTRS is that it literally is a round table. It represents everybody involved in the value chain of SOI, and so give us, I guess, a bit of an insight into how do you convene a partnership that's that diverse. Is it difficult sometimes? I mean, how do you keep a partnership like that together?
Speaker 4:Oh, my God, don't tell me it's quite difficult. Yes, I can tell it's very difficult to convene all these different interests. So from the entire supply chain we used to say from farm to fork, but in terms of soy I think it's more from farm to the final users because we get it's a huge value chain where we can discuss and understand better how, in terms of production, in terms of trade, in terms of all the connections that this value chain has, it's very difficult to get all the interests along. So from different perspectives, different cultures, backgrounds, and so it's a challenge, I can tell you. But it's also interesting and I think we need to move forward in a way that we start gathering all this idea to implementation, to action, because that's what we need nowadays to mitigate the climate problem. So how can we do that? Sitting on a table and discussing until we get answers. So I think that's the way.
Speaker 2:Well, it seems that the discussion is very important and this is a huge I will rephrase, huge now huge matter at hand, because when we look at the production numbers you give us and the land it's used, this is the real deal. This is the real deal, this is the real issue. So I would like to turn to the topic of regenerative agriculture, which is the focus of your upcoming global conference in Belgium, I think in November. How does the RTRS stand for? Soy Align with Regenerative Farming Practices and is this the future for all farming? Do you think, can it be done in this massive numbers?
Speaker 4:Okay, great question.
Speaker 4:So, first of all, what does it mean? Regenerative? I think that's the first step. As I said, the discussions are getting hotter and like. First of all, we don't have a statement or we still don't have a consensus regarding what does regenerative mean. So that's the first thing that we are trying to do.
Speaker 4:So we started to change with my entrancy in the RTRS roundtable. I started to rebuilding the task forces. So the task force is some meetings that we have between our members in order to achieve a consensus of some topics, and regenerative is the first of them. So we started two meetings ago to discuss what does regenerative mean for RTLS Because, as I said, we have completely different scales. Comparing from India to Brazil, production or Argentina, I mean, the scale is different, the reality is different, the environment is different there, the biomes and et cetera, so everything is different.
Speaker 4:What does regenerative mean? So I think that's the first step that we took in our TRS, started discussing this with the task force in Brazil, and next year we're going to have a task force in Europe and also a task force in Latin, in a Spanish language. So we separate Brazil from Latin because of the size and also because of the language. So this is the first step and then, now that we are going to have this international conference in Belgium, in Ghent, next November, we are going to discuss and we are going to introduce this topic and start understanding it better so how the regenerative practices can help us and can have positive impact regarding the carbon sequestration, regarding the carbon sequestration, the soil health, the water quality, the biodiversity and other topics that we think regenerative practices can help for sure. So that's how it's going to be about.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Did you want to follow up Damra? That was a good primer on regenerative agriculture there. Yes, I think so too, but I just want to ask one question as a follow-up. When we talk about soy, actually we are talking about the primary source of protein in our planet, as who says and this is a surprising fact for me, because we always think of protein from livestock and used so much and being the center of everything at the moment Can we really frame a holistic and eco let's say, how can I say eco-sensitive way of producing soy? That was it.
Speaker 4:Well, I think our biggest challenge here is regarding balance, social aspects and environmental aspects. Regarding balance, social aspects and environmental aspects, I think the world is too focused on environmental and, of course, we need to be focused on that, because we have a huge problem regarding the forest, we need to stop deforestation and et cetera. But the social aspects for me, they have been forgotten, so I think that's the key aspect. For me, they have been forgotten, so I think that's the it's a key aspect for me. We need to. In my understanding, regenerative brings social aspects more strongly than all the others.
Speaker 4:Some of the scientists that I've been in touch with. They are connected with the soil properties and soil health, but in my understanding, we also need to have a look on the social aspects. So this balance for me, it's going to be the next discussion because, you can see, I think so. Here in Europe, you are facing a lot of issues regarding the immigration topics because of wars and other challenges that people are facing in their own countries, but I think we are going to face a lot of problems regarding immigration because of climate change, so the social aspect is going to be huge.
Speaker 3:It's one of the things I was really struck by. There's one project that we worked on where 1.5 degrees of global warming would displace roughly 50 million people. Two degrees of global warming will displace 500 million people, so the kind of scale that we're talking about in terms of people movement is going to be absolutely huge. Louisa, you brought up Europe and our kind of European view on all of this, and I think that's really important and one of the reasons why we wanted to talk to you because, as you know, it's quite a critical market. It's a big market for responsible soy and I know RTRS has a really clear vision in particular, of making sure Europe is demanding 100% responsible soy. But I wanted your view on the recent EUDR anti-deforestation conversion legislation, which has been put back by 12 months and has a very unique impact on RTRS, doesn't it? Because it's a fairly singular standard and yours is a much wider, broader, more holistic standard. So what kind of impact is EUDR having on RTRS and where do you see the future lying with that?
Speaker 4:Oh, great question, Steve. Yes, actually, I see that it's going to have a huge impact in our standard and the way we see how responsible SOI is being done until now, because I think UDR came in a way more connected with traceability than sustainability. So that was the main thing for us. Sustainability is broader than traceability and what UDR is saying right now it's more connected with traceability aspects. So, of course, regarding the deforestation aspects, so, of course, regarding the deforestation, again, I don't think UDR was an avant-garde of that topic, because the soy moratorium in Brazil was discussed in 2008. So many years ago we already had zero deforestation for soy in Brazil. So it's not new. It's not a new topic.
Speaker 4:I don't think UDR is bringing anything so new, but it is going to be a challenge regarding the traceability and, of course, in a way, it's good that Europe stepped into this idea of not importing deforestation. It's interesting and of course, many other countries are also starting to discuss about that. But in the other hand, it's not that good if you think in a social aspect. So the smaller producers they have more difficult to implement all these management practices and of course it's it's it's costly, so how can we include the small farmers as well. So that's a little tricky, but of course I think it is. It was a good initiative from the European Commission to start this discussion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is massive, I think, jamila, just one more before we go. But just one thing I think people don't understand about soy is how you have whole regions of Brazil, in particular, where the entire economy is really reliant on it as a market, isn't it? And so the impact of people, for example, choosing to take soy out of their products would be really dramatic for some of these local agricultural economies, wouldn't it?
Speaker 4:yes, we. We have heard from few companies not not many, but few companies saying that they were going to to change. Uh, the soy support an artificial product, so is that better? I don't think so, so I don't know. People also are making choices, and based on what, so that's complicated as well.
Speaker 2:So, luisa, you are pretty new to this post at the round table on responsible soy and, from what I hear from Steve, you're clearly bringing a lot of energy and change to the organization. What's your vision for the future of our TRS?
Speaker 4:Okay, great question Also, demla. Thank you. Well, my vision is connected with a word, that is collaboration. We need to connect all the ideas in order to have this challenge solved the climate change it's happening. We don't have more time. We need to make some actions to do something about it, and the only way that I see we can do it is connecting the entire value chain ideas and bringing people and decision makers to the same table and start acting, so in a collaborative way. And we need to, first of all, stop fighting, start understanding that we are all going to the same way. We are achieving a bottleneck of problems, discussion, good discussions to having these test forces, and a lot of action in the sense of establishing goals, establishing new programs, such as the regenerative incentives that we are going to implement next year. So this is the way I see it.
Speaker 3:Great and Damla. Before you do the last question, I've got one more. I wanted to ask Luisa, which is around, and sorry this I know we gave you some notes around what we might talk about in this, so this is not in your notes, this is completely new. But I was just thinking. While you're talking, and for such a huge commodity across the world which is soy, I'm still struck and interested by how little the public understand about soy. Do you find that to be really interesting? How most people don't understand where soy is used, the range of products that soy is used for, the fact that the vast majority of soy is for animals and not for humans. Do we need a shift in public understanding around soy? Do you think?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think this is also a challenge. How can we make all this communication get to the you, the final users or the customers in general? And I want to start with an information that nowadays we have 400 million hectares, so it's the world's largest commodity. So also the impact is huge. So how can we make an effort to have a positive impact? If we change and if we implement regenerative practices in 125 million hectares, it's going to be also huge in a positive way, where we can reduce the carbon emissions and also reduce the carbon levels for the pre-industrial levels in the atmosphere. So it's an amazing impact that we can do it through the soil value chain.
Speaker 4:And I don't know how to make all the people understanding this and understanding the importance of agricultural practices and commodities and production as well. There are a lot of people working on that in the farms, in the fields. It's not an easy job. They are under the sun the entire day, so it's not an easy job, but it needs to be done and it needs to get more technological as well. So I think the huge message is all the products are important and soy is used in many industries, such as cosmetics, chemicals, automotive I mean in many industries, so it is important to continue having this production, but in a more sustainable way, for sure.
Speaker 2:So, luisa, the final question. Our network is ironically called Do Not Smile, because we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world. So what object, place or person always makes you smile?
Speaker 4:oh, that's such a difficult question. Okay, I love it, the british humor so great, uh, for me, what brings me is my, what makes me smile is, uh, when I, when I am able, when I am in a bar with some friends and then someone brings the subject of agriculture saying that, oh, agriculture damaged the world, is the violence of the world, and then I said, no, people come on. And then I started explaining all the sustainable practices that we have, our standard and many others, and how farmers are. They want to make a different, they want to be part of the solution. So I start explaining from my perspective, from my background on visiting so many farms, and then the people start oh, I didn't know that. Okay, yes, you have a good point. And then they change their minds about agriculture. So that's what makes me smile.
Speaker 3:Love it. So we're going to wrap up now. That's a really excellent question, excellent answer. Definitely, changing minds makes you smile, so I'm going to wrap up. I should also apologize if there's a little bit of music in the background, because we're good guys on tour today, because I'm meeting Louisa in London, so I'm going to wrap it up. Thanks to everyone who's listened to our Good Guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile network of agencies, and make sure you listen in to future episodes, where we'll be talking to more amazing people like Louisa, so see you, damla Take care.
Speaker 1:Thank you Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
