GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
We Are Warriors, with Effie Kanyua
In this episode we talk to Effie Kanyua, a trailblazing communications professional and founder of We Are Warriors. Effie shares her journey from BBC journalist to the first female Black comms director at major broadcasters and publishers.
Discover how Effie’s diverse experiences in sectors like FMCG, tech, media, fashion, luxury, and automotive have shaped her innovative approach to PR and technology. Also – how a reset moment post-pandemic led her to create Lila Assistant, a cutting-edge AI tool that underscores the transformative role of technology in modern communications.
And in a powerful discussion on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DE&I), Effie doesn't hold back. She candidly addresses the persistent lack of representation and slow career progression for Black women and people of colour in the media industry.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello everyone, you are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from Reagency, istanbul, and.
Speaker 3:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester.
Speaker 2:This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen, and has worked for some of the world's biggest brands, media owners, publishing houses and agencies across a whole host of sectors.
Speaker 3:And just to carry on bigging up Effie she's the founder of we Are Warriors, a new kind of PR agency which we're going to get into offering innovative AI solutions which also touches on sustainability closer to our hearts, effie um, and she's also the uk country chair for the g100 media and arts communications chapter, which is basically part of a club of the top 100 most powerful women leaders in the world. And once upon a time, effie, you and I tried to get a hold of the dhamma dalai lama, but that's a whole other story. Effie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation.
Speaker 3:Brilliant. So let's get straight into. We like to kick things off with a bit of a sort of what's your journey conversation. So tell us about your journey in the world of communications and how it led to where you are now, which is, we Are Warriors and AI, plus key issues of the day in communications. It all sounds like incredible blends, so tell us how you got here.
Speaker 4:Well, obviously you and I have a history, because back in the day I used to work for your brilliant agency, but I actually started off as a BBC journalist and that was absolutely amazing. I was based in Manchester, I worked for the BBC in London and I think for me journalism had always kind of been my end goal. But I actually kind of fell into comms through, actually, something that probably isn't so fun. But essentially I'd gone for a role. I was due to be the political correspondent at the BBC in Northern Ireland. I'd gone through all the auditions, tv screenings et cetera, got the role and then the role was pulled and so I kind of decided that I needed to try something else and I always say and I story and what you know, what a journalist looks for and you know thinking about all of those sort of components so that you can get across your brand message, whatever it is you're trying to do. And so I kind of fell into it sort of pretty seamlessly and got to work with incredible agencies such as Creative Concern, and I then moved to London and worked for some of the top agencies there and I started to work on and head up accounts and I've pretty much worked across every sector. So you know everything from Everything from FMCG to tech to media, to fashion, luxury, automotive and for some of, I guess, some of the world's biggest global brands. And I think that kind of put me in very good stead for sort of my career trajectory, because I think that sometimes within comms you can get quite pigeonholed, but I think with my career I was able to literally work across every single sector and I think that kind of made me the sort of comms professional that I am now.
Speaker 4:And I guess I suppose my sort of big break came when I became communications director for Bauer Media. And anyone who doesn't know Bauer Media, it's a global media owner, german, privately owned. It has a broadcast arm which I headed up first and has some of our most loved radio stations such as Kiss, magic, absolute Radio, etc. And then I went to work on the publishing arm for magazines such as Grazia, mojo, q, heat, etc. So that was absolutely incredible. And I then went on to move to Hearst, which again is a privately owned media owner headed up in the US, and it's part of Hearst Corporation which actually has lots of different arms, not just, I mean, magazines, is just a tiny part of it. It's just a tiny part of it, but I think what's so strong about Hearst is that it has world renowned brands such as Elle, harper's Bazaar, cosmopolitan, men's Health, women's Health, and that was a really big move for me. It was significant, I think, when I joined Bauer Media, because I was the first female black comms director at any major broadcaster and publisher. And then when I moved to Hearst, I got to sit on their senior leadership team, which I think was pretty significant at the time, and that was an incredible journey.
Speaker 4:And then I actually ended up moving to Germany post-pandemic we can probably sort of delve into it later but essentially, I think for everyone who worked in the comms industry during the pandemic, particularly those people that worked in-house, it was a really rough ride and you know, we went from one minute kind of, I guess, being almost like the poor relative within the organization to kind of being the key focal point and during that time I kind of really embraced bringing tech into what we did as communicators, purely due to the sheer volume of work that we had to do.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I then decided to move to Germany and then came back and decided to found my own agency we Are Warriors PR and then crazily decide to build my own AI tool called Lila Assistant, which is kind of integrated into our offering. And, yeah, I think it's something that I really wanted to do. I've kind of headed up lots of tech brands throughout my career. I've always been a bit of a tech geek anyway, and I really wanted to try and find a way that AI because it is such an important technology how that could be integrated into the work that we do as comms professionals, how it could support me as a business, but also how it could support clients as well.
Speaker 2:Well, I think great. I mean what you said in the beginning what makes a story so in your own words and in your story, I just feel that word coming out appetite. Appetite to do more, appetite to curiosity to find new things, and that's so energizing. And also my answer to that question was always being that one key word, that you anchor all your story about just one concept in one word, and you, throughout all your career it seems that have found a lot of keywords, like a keystone in architecture. You find that concept and then you build everything around. So I will turn to G100 Media and Arts Committee that you chair, but also the key word and concept that you've come up with the sisterhood mission. We have seen you write about it. And what is this? Sisterhood in communications, marketing and advertising industry?
Speaker 4:Because it's so powerful a concept that I already bought because it's so powerful a concept that I already bought. Yeah, I mean, I'm so honoured that I was approached by the G100. And if anyone doesn't know about the G100, it's this incredible group of really smart women that at the top of their fields there are sort of 100 divisions women at the top of their fields, there are sort of 100 divisions and it's a global think tank that really is trying to push the barriers forward in terms of equity and equality, and it's made up of all types of people, from, you know, ex-heads of state to noble laureates, to successful female entrepreneurs, and it covers absolutely I mean, my faction is obviously media, arts and communication, but there are so many that sort of cover everything from science to tech to luxury, and what I think is so great about it is it really is that it is a sisterhood. I'm obviously very new to it. It has just been so welcoming and what I think is really great is that this think tank is mobilizing women from across the globe in a hundred countries to work towards a joined up mission to promote and safeguard women globally, and I think that's really important. And what I think is really smart about it is getting women to mobilize. But also it's not just women. There's actually a division that's made up of men that are there to support women, and I think that that's a up of men that are there to support women, and I think that that's a really important part of the conversation.
Speaker 4:Women, if we're pushing for equality and equity, we can't do it alone.
Speaker 4:We need those allies, we need those male allies, we need people that can help get us into spaces that sometimes we're excluded from or we may not be taken seriously.
Speaker 4:And I think it's a really smart move that, as opposed to just having it as a female only organisation, that there is this division of male partners that are really there to help and support the women within the G100 and to kind of push forward on each country's like separate agenda. And that's the thing. Like, I was speaking to someone recently from India and I guess her concerns are very different to the concerns that we have here within the UK, but I think we're kind of, you know, we're all aligned in terms of what we need to do and how we need to do it, and I just think it's such a positive thing and such a great thing to be part of and I'm really excited about bringing together women from across my industry but other industries that work within sort of the creative and arts industries together to work on common causes that really affect the UK at this time that's um.
Speaker 3:If I can see, people are listening to this and not watching, but they wouldn't, so they wouldn't be able to see damla's huge beaming face of general sisterhood.
Speaker 3:That's happening right now, but I so I got just broadening that out a little bit, effie, um, it'd be lovely to hear your wider perspective on what that, what the challenge still looks like in media for um.
Speaker 3:The role, you know, the status of women, uh, in media and comms and and particularly for your perspective, obviously as a black woman, is really important and then as a kind of uh, an extra one for you to have a think about and respond to um, which may take the rest of the podcast, but it's really important and it'd be crazy not to recognize it is. You know, we've had a really difficult week in the you here in the UK when it comes to race issues and and I don't think I've heard anybody from the comms industry come out and say what our challenge now is in terms of the narrative we put out there on racism today. So sorry, that's a huge deal with FV. I apologize, it's a big question, but what are your thoughts? You know, first of all, on all on your you know that mission for for women, but also the media narrative about racism and what do we do after this week of of horrific riots but then the country seeming to come together?
Speaker 4:yeah, absolutely. Um. So I would say the first part in terms of the challenges within our industry. I I mean, I was very involved when I was at Hearst in DE&I and kind of going out into the industries. As I mentioned, there weren't, and still aren't, very many people that look like me, unfortunately, within the industry, and 100% within the most senior roles and 100% within the most senior roles.
Speaker 4:I've said before that I think, when it comes to DE&I, I think there's an? A missing. In fact, I think there are several letters missing after that. And I think the key thing that's missing is action, because I think you can have the first three parts, but if you don't have the action, if you don't have the accountability, if you don't have the reporting part of it, then it's for nothing. And I think the industry has tried to put in place several great initiatives and I know that there are lots of people that really are consciously working towards it.
Speaker 4:But the stats don't lie and actually the UK Black Comms Network that I'm a part of has just put out some really, you know, quite disturbing research regarding black comms professionals within our industry, and I think there was a stat of around something like 78% of black comms professionals have considered leaving the industry, and that's because it is so challenging. It's challenging from a perspective of getting the roles in the first place. It's challenging from the perspective of once you're in an organisation, whether it's agency side or in-house. You know what does that look like, how are you treated, how are you supported. You know how are you promoted fairly. I think there's lots of stats around. You know for Black comms professionals that that career progression is so much slower, unfortunately, that pay isn't always equal and that it's a lot more challenging.
Speaker 4:And then, when it gets to the most senior positions, the representation still isn't there. It's not there for women, it's not there for Black women, it's not there for people of colour, and that's something that still needs to be addressed. And that's why whenever I do see, I guess, brands and organizations and companies talking about DE&I, I kind of eye roll slightly if I don't see tangible action attached to it, like I always think, and I think it's really important that businesses need to get uncomfortable with having those uncomfortable conversations and, you know, having to put themselves into positions and territories that they may not be used to, but that's not a good enough reason not to do it, and so I think there's a long way to go. I think we've made some progress. I don't think we're making progress fast enough, and I think this survey that came out I think it was a week ago shows that there's still a long way to go and that there are some still quite serious issues within our industry that are kind of being swept under the carpet. I almost feel as though, post George Floyd, it was kind of like in vogue to suddenly, you know, be an ally and whatever. But if you decide that you're going to be anti-racist or an ally, then that's your commitment and it's ongoing, and I don't think you can just pick and choose when you choose to speak up or do the right thing, and I just think that what's happened recently is a stark reminder of that. I think there's lots of. To your second point in question, I think that there are lots of questions flying around. I obviously come from a background, having worked in publishing.
Speaker 4:I think we need to take a close look at those media outlets that need to be held accountable for causing what has happened. What has happened has been atrocious and unthinkable, and I've received messages from people abroad that just cannot fathom that this is happening in 2024, given the context of everything that kind of happened a few years ago and the fact that you know, the UK that we love descended into a, you know, a country that was barely recognisable. What I think is really important to recognise is that it wasn't just one thing. It's kind of been a boiling point and a sort of melting pot of racism over the years, fuelled by lots of different factions. The media need to take full accountability.
Speaker 4:There are politicians that need to take full accountability with the rhetoric and the disgusting messaging that they've put out there, and I think social media needs to be held to account. I think they have fueled this crisis. Quite frankly, that has happened within our country, and what I find so frustrating, having worked with social media brands across years and technology companies, is that the right legislation hasn't been put in place to essentially hold these social media companies to account and make them police and get rid of all this unnecessary hate online, and I know that people have raised this question over the years. I'm really hoping that, from a sort of EU perspective and from a UK perspective that the government takes the chance to think about what's happened to us and puts the right measures in place, because a lot of what's happened wouldn't have been made possible without a the media that have been kind of riling, you know factions up over years, but without the accessibility of social media and the freedom of social media to kind of spew this hate online.
Speaker 2:I just read a piece from Independent UK which was calling Elon Musk to be held responsible during this feeling. So when we look at this, actions and consequences, actually sometimes we lose the bond between our own actions in the social media and its consequences. And so you are so right. And for our listeners, d and I, we refer to diversity, equality and inclusion. But what you said is very much important action and accountability. And I have two things to say about this.
Speaker 2:One, we do see an open backlash to DE&I at the moment from various channels, but also there is a more quiet and discreet but more powerful backlash which makes greenwashing, gender washing, color washing, washing, washing, washing, washing, hushing, hushing, hushing. But also not holding responsible, not following up. And we have seen a great example of it last week, steve, the Clean Creatives campaign for Havas, and they lost their B Corp because they were working with Shell. So we are in a totally new world and in this new world of communication sector, we do see some initiatives taking action to follow up on what brands do. So we have to be actually more careful with our campaigns, not washing anything, but really take action and behold responsibility.
Speaker 2:So that's where I'm coming is. I'm coming to your. We Are Warriors that's a big name by the name. Your agency are warriors that's a big name by the name. Uh, your agency. And you fold the dni plus sustainability into your offers. As a pr agency, it will be brilliant to know how you see those two critical areas being part of helping clients maintain their reputation and brands yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 4:I think I was very conscious when I started we Are Warriors that I wanted to include those sort of two areas to very much support brands. When I worked in-house at Hearst, I was part of the sustainability group in terms of helping Hearst to become the most sustainable publisher, but also looking at how sustainability kind of impacts all of us through what has to be probably one of the greatest polluters and that's fashion. And so actually, elle did a lot of work. We did our first sustainable issue for our September issue and, if anyone doesn't know, but essentially within the kind of sort of fashion luxury world, the September issue is iconic it's the most important issue of the year for any magazine and we essentially wanted to take a stand and to make that issue all about sustainability, to really educate our readers as to what they should be doing on a sort of local level, but also what brands should also be doing in terms of taking a good long hard think about the impact that the fashion industry has in climate change, and I think that's really important. And so when I founded we Are Warriors, I think one of the things that I was looking at two of the areas I that is part of kind of supporting the overall health of their brand, but it's an integral part and it's something that consumers want to see.
Speaker 4:Why I was targeting those particular industries is that I think that they are sometimes the worst offenders when it comes to kind of ignoring those key issues around sustainability and DE&I.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of greenwashing that goes on, and so what I wanted to do was bring in experts in those particular fields that I work with to help support brands on their mission and to start the conversation and to get them to think about how they can incorporate those two kind of areas into any campaign or work that they do, whether it's from a corporate perspective or an internal comms perspective, or from a corporate perspective or an internal comms perspective or from a consumer perspective. And I just think that that's really important. And I think those two sectors tech and luxury and fashion I think there's a long way to go, and so I kind of saw it as a bit of a niche, as in I know where the expertise is within our industry. I can bring it in, I can help you to achieve those ambitions. I can at least start the conversation, whether or not they want to do it. That's one thing, but I just think it's kind of part of my mission, vision and ethics that I want to start those conversations.
Speaker 3:That was brilliant. Well, effie and I have to share Damla's point of view. I think we Are Warriors is just the most epic name for an agency. I mean bloody hell, and I know also Damla, because we're almost out of time. So Damla will be really frustrated that we're not going to do a follow up on can luxury brands make the journey to sustainability, which is where she would like to go. I know her too well, but I wanted, just before we do, dan, I'll do this final question for you. I wanted to just have a quick moment where we talk about the fact that you, better than I think anybody else I've seen so far at speed, are folding AI into your operation, your workflow, your offer to clients. It sounds really fascinating and just lovely to hear what you're doing on that and how it intersects with a really interesting offer around sustainability, diversity, brand reputation. Tell us about your AI journey as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I have always been interested in technology and I actually and I think the thing that people always forget is that AI has been around for years. It's not a new thing, right, it's just kind of been repackaged. But I started using technology pre-pandemic, which kind of helped us to get through the pandemic, so I was already using a form of AI. What I wanted to do for my business was to build something to essentially solve problems within our industry Well, from my perspective, solve my problems. So that's kind of where the journey started with Lila Assistant. I knew that I was starting a business, I knew that I wanted to incorporate technology. I knew that I was starting from a place of not having resource, time, funding, et cetera, and so I wanted to find a solution and so actually building Lila Assistant. I had two iterations that failed before I landed on the final version, and I think what I wanted to do was I wanted to build something from a female founder's perspective that kind of tackled all of those areas that, unfortunately, big tech doesn't think about, combat or even seek to address. I wanted to look at things like accessibility in terms of I think there's a barrier to entry for lots of people not thinking that they're able to use technology, but there are so many benefits for all sorts of people, whether it's, you know, older people, you know, struggling to write basic things like emails or to do certain tasks, how that can help them, people with language barriers who are trying to apply for jobs, how AI can help them there. There are so many like really good use cases. So I wanted to build a tool that was accessible but also inclusive, and so I wanted the look and feel of it to look very different to any other technology that was out there, and I made sure that I specifically trained it in terms of biases, because I think that something as comms people is something that we're talking about a lot about those. You know AI biases and how that can affect brands in turn, and so I took time to make sure that I was training Lila so it could be as diverse as possible, and I think that's really important for us as comms professionals when we're working with clients that we need to think about if we are using AI. You know, what does that response look like? Is it biased? How do we recognize it, and so that's something that I really wanted to address.
Speaker 4:I also wanted to address the idea around ethics Again, I think a lot of people don't know about the way that our data is used and stored by a lot of these big tech companies quite unethical uses of our data and privacy and so I built Lila so I could trust that when I was using it, my data was private to me, my client's data was private and it wasn't being used to train any LLMs, and I think that that's kind of like an interesting perspective that tech brands aren't thinking about, thinking about those ethics. And then the sustainability part is, as most people will know, is that the way that AI is going in order to support these large, large language models, the amount of energy, the amount of impact on the climate is unsustainable. I mean, it's like it's literally a crisis waiting to happen. They cannot carry on at this rate, and sustainability isn't something that they're really seeking to address, because they're chasing profit, and that's why I always think it's really important, when you are looking at AI tools, to look at what is the motivating factor behind what that tool has been set up to do, and so I wanted to look at in my own way, in terms of how my particular tool was hosted, to use a provider that actually does focus on sustainability.
Speaker 4:So all of those different parts were kind of weaved into the building of an AI tool and I I think it's important because I think there are people out there that will want to use AI tools that have ethics and sustainability and everything in D&I in mind, and I want there to be a market where people have those choices, that they are able to find those tools that think about and try and address and tackle some of those issues. So that's really kind of what I was trying to do. And then, just from a sort of broader comms perspective, I just wanted to like solve a problem. We are overworked, under-resourced. We, you know, know the work that we do for our clients. Like there is so much that we have to do as comms professionals. How can ai help us? That was the sim, that was the question. So I wanted to build something that could help to address some of those concerns amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2:I mean, effie, there are so many things that I want to talk to you, so many things that I want to ask more, but time flies. I'm so sorry, so I have to ask the final question. Our network is ironically called do not smile, because we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness in the world. So what place or person always make you smile?
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh, that's such a good question. So, place, there's lots of places, but I would say New Zealand and Argentina I don't know if anyone has it it, but there are just certain places that you go to and you just get that feeling and it just lifts your spirit. Uh, people, my family, my friends, like yeah, there's there's too many people to mention, um an object. Do you know what?
Speaker 4:This is going to sound really bad, but I have like favorite items of clothing that I've had for like 20 years. I've got really into thinking about because I used to buy so many clothes, like I was like the worst offender and I've really got into kind of upcycling and kind of reselling and rebuying um clothes and I've got items I've realized in my wardrobe that I've had for like 15 to 20 years and there's a like a moment of joy when I have that sort of item that I know that I've had for so long and the sort of feelings and memories that it invokes. There are certain items that have literally traveled around the world with me, so my item probably would be like a piece of clothing that's brilliant.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad we're finishing on this circular economy of Effie's wardrobe. It couldn't be more perfect. I'm gonna check my email now because we may have got that email back from the Dalai Lama off the back of that. It only took about 15 years, but we got there anyway. So thank you so much, effie. It's been absolutely brilliantly brilliant talking to you and and we ranged off over a huge amount there and we could go on forever, but we're gonna have to call it.
Speaker 2:Call it to a close, so damla over to you so thanks to everyone who has listened to our good guys podcast, brought to you by the do not smile network of agencies and make sure you listen to future episodes, where we'll be talking to more amazing people like effie about how we can work together to create a more sustainable future.
Speaker 3:So, effie, damlae Damla, take care and see you soon.
Speaker 4:See you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability Hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
