GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Screen to Green – Sustainable Storytelling, with Steve Smith
How can the media industry balance its significant ecological footprint with its powerful cultural influence? Join us as we sit down with Steve Smith, a BAFTA award-winning television director turned sustainable production consultant, who shares his compelling journey from the fast-paced world of entertainment to becoming a fervent advocate for sustainability.
Steve recounts his early career experiences through to his seminal role in BAFTA's Albert initiative, which is dedicated to reducing the carbon footprint of media productions.
From high-carbon lifestyles to eco-friendly living, media holds the key to societal transformation. This episode explores the crucial role of media in updating traditional portrayals to inspire sustainable living.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello everyone. You are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from MIR Agency, Istanbul, and.
Speaker 3:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
Speaker 2:So very exciting. In this episode we're going to talk to Steve Smith, an executive producer, sustainable production consultant, climate storyteller and impact producer. He is a BAFTA award-winning television director and has taken the creative lead on numerous projects to help create some of the UK's most popular television programmes.
Speaker 3:Including, of course, we have to mention it, steve the one and only Graham Norton Show. Steve was also the former chair of Directors UK and a BAFTA Albert ambassador, which I'm not going to explain now, steve, because we might get into what is Albert during the course of the conversation. So thanks for taking the time to join Damma and myself.
Speaker 4:Brilliant. Really good to be here with you this afternoon.
Speaker 3:Fab. So, first of all, it's great to have you on the podcast, because we haven't had a chance yet to talk about broadcasting industry's impact on our future, which, frankly, it feels like it's a bit overlooked, don't you think?
Speaker 4:yeah, our impact as a, as an industry, um is is pretty significant. Um, I mean the the carbon footprint of creating content, whether it's feature films, tv shows, you know they have a significant footprint because, because we travel a lot when we go and tell stories, we make stuff, we use lots of materials, we build sets. We kind of then throw those sets away, traditionally in skips, you know, which is a terribly wasteful thing to do. That we're trying to change. So our impact is enormous. But on top of that we also have the cultural impact as well. Because we're storytellers, we kind of beam our content into the kind of living rooms of people all around the world and increasingly it's sort of international with the streamers, you know. So we can reach people across the globe and I think that gives us a huge opportunity to try and sort of tell stories around climate change and shift narratives and behavior change. So very exciting the opportunities our industry has.
Speaker 2:These are so, so exciting topics for us in this podcast, but before getting into all of this, we always like to hear our guests' personal stories and journeys. So, steve, what happened to make a sustainability enthusiast out of a big time show guy?
Speaker 4:Well, it's really funny actually, because I was thinking about my journey. I started my career in the industry aged 18, working for the National Cobalt Film Unit. So I was working in the mining industry. You know we were telling stories around um kind of uh how mining communities operated, but also making training films for the industry. So that was kind of in the in the very early 1980s um, and I started my career as an assistant film editor working on sort of 35 millimeter film with razor blades and sellotape. You know we've now sort of changed how we do that, working with things like Avid, you know, digitally.
Speaker 4:And from there I kind of went and sort of did one of Channel 4's first ever youth programs when Channel 4 started, moved to the BBC, became a director, worked on lots of sort of great entertainment shows. So I've always specialised in being a sort of studio director, great entertainment shows. So I've always specialised in being a sort of studio director, so doing things like the Graham Norton Show, alan Carr, chatty man, the Friday Night Project, the F Word with Gordon Ramsay, you know lots of those kind of great entertainment shows. But I've always, I guess, been interested in sustainability and what really kind of clicked for me was about 20 years ago when I moved out of London and down into Wiltshire into the countryside and suddenly being, I think, in amongst nature, realizing that things were not quite as they should be. You know kind of things, the cycle of nature changing, you know kind of rivers running dry when they shouldn't be running dry and frosts happening at the wrong time of year and catching frogs out and nature behaving in a really weird way. And so I think that connection with nature made me more concerned around climate change and so I got involved with Albert.
Speaker 4:So Albert is the home of the screen sector for the film and TV industry. It's part of BAFTA, who sort of do all these awards, and Albert started, I think, just over about 12 years ago and when they first launched I thought, oh my goodness, I must get involved. So I contacted them and said how can I help? What can I do to support? And they were saying we desperately need people to help train our industry. So I became a sort of part-time Albert trainer around my directing commitments and would help sort of give kind of sustainable production training to the industry. And from that point I just realised there was a lot of work that we could do, and so that's what got my kind of sustainability bug going.
Speaker 3:Amazing. I didn't know about the cold board, steve. That's quite extraordinary. And, without getting distracted, I feel like I need to pitch a story to you that you might want to make, which is I've come across a project that the coal authorities is now to use those disused mines as heat sources for heat networks and it's the most beautiful poetry about bringing like low carbon energy out of these disused mines. And um, I had the. It was really funny. I had a meeting with the former head of coal mines in lancashire and he said, yeah, it's boiling down there. We used to mine in our under pants. Wow, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3:That's not my question, though, because we could do a whole other podcast on mines, but the, some of the numbers around the impact of um of media and and the arts are quite significant. So damler dug out some stats of where an example oppenheimer or barbie's emissions basically to power 656 homes for a year, um and the uh. Each hour of television produced apparently, according to one report, results in carbon footprint of 9.2 tons. So it's quite significant big numbers. Do you think the industry I know you've worked really hard now but in the training and awareness stuff but is the industry aware of its culpability in this space, and and and. Do we need to accelerate change in the industry?
Speaker 4:Yes, I think the industry is increasingly aware of it. I mean, I think the work that Albert has done has kind of set the UK in a sort of leadership role in this for the film and TV sector. I think we are leading compared to a lot of other countries. Sort of media sectors and Albert have kind of done some phenomenal work, training people in our industry to have an awareness around the sort of impact of production, training people in our industry to have an awareness around the sort of impact of production. And again with the work I'm now doing with Picture Zero, you know we are supporting productions kind of decarbonize, and even in the last kind of 12 months I think there's been a rapid sort of change in attitudes. You know sort of things like battery technology is really starting to sort of be embraced by the industry. You know there sort of things like battery technology is really starting to sort of be embraced by the industry. You know there are sort of new ways of working that we're starting to take on board and you know I'm noticing productions that we support reducing our emissions by almost 50% relatively easily.
Speaker 4:I mean one of the big shifts, and I have huge concerns about this. One of the big shifts is moving our industry away from diesel in generators to using HVO. So, for those that might not know, hvo is hydro-treated vegetable oil and it's the source of waste products made from cooking oils. That reduces your emissions by about 90% compared to using. And then, how robust is the certification process and the supply chain? And are we going to end up having palm oil in HVO, which would be a real concern, and I suspect that's already starting to happen?
Speaker 4:I can see, tamla, from your expression that you know. So I have huge concerns about that, that something that might seem a good thing temporarily then becomes kind of a bad thing and a negative thing. Because the answer that I keep saying is we need to be moving to electrification of everything. We need sort of you know, battery technology, no generators. We need to be kind of using renewable energy, 100% renewable. And again, you know, with the sort of change of government and that sort of acceleration of decarbonizing our grids, you know, with the sort of change of government and that sort of acceleration of decarbonizing our grid, you know that hopefully will make that more achievable.
Speaker 2:So we are an amazing species, don't you think that?
Speaker 4:We get addicted to one thing and then get addicted to something else.
Speaker 2:Addictions. That's it. We began with the impact of the entertainment and the broadcasting industry's own operations, but on the other hand, there is a huge another impact in narrative, behavior change, culture, and in one of your articles you said that media's obligation extends beyond operations. We need to make sure we champion sustainable living in both the way we make our programs as the messages they send to our audiences. So here are some more numbers In 2023, climate was mentioned in 5% of major networks' screen time in USA, and most of this was about wildfires and the heat waves. So isn't the subject sexy enough for the mainstream media, do you think?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's challenging. I mean, I think you know we often see entertainment as escapism, don't we? And we sort of don't always want to be sort of telling negative stories. You know, one of the things I think is really critical is sometimes just normalising sustainable behaviour on screen, giving people kind of permission to not think that sustainability is just for the weird eco-warriors and that it's something that everyday people can do. So I think we don't always need to be doing overt kind of climate change stories or end of the world stories.
Speaker 4:But I think, you know, one of the things we at Picture Zero do a lot of work on is how do we just sort of make sustainable living feel normal and every day. And and also I think there's some great work that has been done around what's called action storytelling, that whole thing about showing, not telling. Action storytelling, that whole thing about showing, not telling. And actually what we do know is and I think it's quite interesting that sort of whole thing around sort of just stop oil. That actually kind of being really concerned and worried about climate change isn't always a kind of way that people will change their behaviour. Actually, it often is the opposite, and one of the most effective ways of kind of changing behavior is just showing and normalizing behavior and allowing audiences to make up their own mind and do stuff.
Speaker 4:So you know, we, we do a lot of work about how you can just just make it normal, make it every day, and uh, and, and I think again, one of the key um drivers in this is how do we bring that to sort of the shows that we already love? You know, how do we bring that to sort of the shows that we already love. You know, how do we bring this to sort of EastEnders and Emmerdale and shows like that, and these productions are already starting to do a lot of things in that way. They do try and bring these storylines into their shows as much as they can.
Speaker 3:I find all that really fascinating, Steve. I find all that really fascinating, Steve. I remember there's quite a lot of studies to show that people aren't antipathetic to a greener lifestyle. But it's just not front of mind all the time and if you make it front of mind for them, you make it the primary decision they have to make. It actually closes people down and I remember working with Asda's. Asda had a consumer panel where 72% of their consumers said they cared about the environment. It just wasn't what directed all of their decision-making. So I think that whole normalisation piece is really fascinating. But when you do get the opportunity to do some storytelling if we go back to that, because I know you have worked quite a bit on this what, what are the? What are the good elements, assuming they're not going down a normalizing strategy but you're going to tell the story of climate, what are the key elements of successful storytelling on this issue that you've worked with so much?
Speaker 4:well, I think it's always to make it, to make an emotional contact with people. I mean, that's, that's that's. We're programmed to find sort of meaning in stories rather than sort of numbers and facts. So I think it's always making those emotional contacts, isn't it? Making, you know, making it feel, you know that that that people can really kind of connect and see themselves in the situations. You know that, know that that you're in um and again, you know, I, I, I don't like this sort of notion of doing lots of sort of end of world stories, because I don't think those are are effective.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know world building, you know how can we imagine what a future world where we solve climate change can be, you know, can be better? And, and I think it's interesting if you sort of look at the parallels between the recent election that we've had in the UK, I think one of the challenges as voters that we have is that we can't necessarily see that change is possible, and if you can't see that change is possible, it's quite hard to imagine that you'll ever solve some of these enormous problems that we have. The other thing that I think is really useful is having a historical context as well, because I think sometimes we think that net zero is the first time that we've actually had to sort of do a big transition like this, and actually that's not true. You know, if you go back in the past, I was looking at the National Coal Board archive recently and found this brilliant film from 1961 called Arthur Clears the Air, and basically it was a public information film.
Speaker 4:That happened as a result of the Clean Air Act, where we had to transition away from all those smoking fuels in our fireplaces to smokeless fuel and as a result we actually had to change many of our fireplaces, we had to adapt them and again government and councils provided grants. But in a relatively short time we transitioned away from that and that was very effective able to transition I think it's something like 14 million customers or kind of households in about eight years from one fuel system to another. And so I think actually we should take some sort of reassurance that actually we've always transitioned, otherwise we'd still be in caves over an open fire. So actually net zero is just part of that kind of next phase of transitioning, and so I think sometimes storytelling that kind of puts things in a context that allows you to see that we've always been able to sort of problem solve and evolve. I think is quite helpful.
Speaker 2:You just worked your magic, you know. I mean, this big issue with climate crisis and sustainability and behavior just became something that we always do. Isn't that the magic?
Speaker 4:Absolutely, absolutely. And actually you know there's another thing isn't there Because you know it's the modernization of technologies, you know. So obviously, you know we used to cut down trees and burn them to sort of, you know, make fire and cook. Then we discovered things like coal and so we would kind of move to that, and then oil and gas. You know renewables is just the next sort of phase of that journey and I would argue that, you know, even if there wasn't a climate crisis, you know using renewable energy makes sense because it's cheaper. You know, if all you're worried about is your bottom line, you know, if you run a big company, why would you continue to use fossil fuels that are more expensive for you and will help, you know, will prevent you from making as much profit as you might be able to do if you move to renewables?
Speaker 3:So it just makes common sense it's a big one, isn't it? So the other analogue of a major transition that you can put in front of people is COVID, and the fact that you know the world changed the way literally everybody lived in about eight weeks is extraordinary. And the other thing, I read a fact somewhere, Steve, that the global economic cost of dealing with COVID was virtually exactly the same amount we'd have to spend to decarbonise the global economy, which I think is fascinating. But I just wanted one other question on sort of big transitions, if you like, and the role of the media. Advertising and entertainment is, I guess, a kind of broader cultural narrative around consumption being the definition of success and the idea of infinite consumption on a finite planet, and is that something you think we can? We need to turn around by working with broadcast broadcasting industry yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4:You know, how do you make sustainable lifestyles feel um, kind of uh, luxurious and sort of aspirational? Because, you know, if you look at our screens, you know we are still promoting, um, a high carbon lifestyle as being the norm and and the everyday. So how do we? How do we do that? You know it's interesting. You know, when I, when I first started working in the tv industry, I did a lot of sort of saturday morning kids programs and we you would have, you know, various pop stars and it would always be considered the coolest thing to go and film them getting off a plane at an airport and jumping in a limo and being driven somewhere in a limo, you know. So I would sort of be saying that that's how we used to do that kind of stuff. I would say that isn't how I would want to sort of do an interview with a celebrity anymore, because I don't want to promote sort of like, you know, aircraft and flying and limos and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:I mean, what's really interesting again is some of the work that we're doing at Picture Zero around cast engagement.
Speaker 4:So for the last year we've been working with Equity, who have recently brought out a Green Rider specifically to try and engage cast.
Speaker 4:And what's interesting is, whilst the TV industry has been working on sustainability for the last decade, we haven't really spoken to the cast and to the kind of talent.
Speaker 4:We've always been very nervous about having those conversations, but of course they're real normal people too, with families and concerns about the climate, just like everyone has, and what we're finding is, by having that conversation, telling them what we're already doing in our industry to reduce emissions and asking for them to support, that has really opened up some really interesting conversations where we're starting to get cast engagement and hopefully that then filters down to their sort of social media followings and and perhaps changes some of the things that they do and and that they kind of um show that their followers doing. You know so, whether it's about their diet or whether it's about how they travel or the kind of consumption they have. So I think you know it's it's starting to change, but it's a it's a slow process and it's kind of lots of dripping everywhere, isn't it? It's a sort of drip, drip thing and you know we need to do all of it. I don't think there's just one thing that's going to solve the problem.
Speaker 3:We have to do it all yeah, all of it, everywhere all the time good rs go. Hey, damler, just one quick one for me before before I hand back over to you. So steve on the cast and you've met, obviously, a gazillion. Uh cast, just name us a few who are the greenest celebs that you've encountered.
Speaker 4:Well, I know that you know one of the the people, the people that I'm sure won't mind me kind of mentioning is Mark Rylance. You know he's been a huge supporter of the equity green rider you know who publicly supporting it. He's kind of made a commitment to have green riders in his contracts. And you know I was working on a production recently with Mark where he was actually coming to regular sustainability conversations that we would have. You know, we would have this working group for the production and Mark would come along to them and, and you know what's great is, we often talk about it on the production. It's like sort of school ground kind of behaviour, isn't it? If the most popular kid in the sandpit is doing something, then everybody else wants to do it as well. And, generally speaking, on a production the most popular kid is usually the star of the show. So if they say this is important, then everybody else listens and takes note. So I think that's why it's really good to do this.
Speaker 2:Well, in all of this conversation, I just told one of our guests you know, we're a network of creative agencies around Europe working on sustainability and our partners in Rome. Nicola said that we should make it personal, we should make it sexy and we should make it fun. So that's the I think narrative. But I will combine this with something else and go back to 2000 years Epictetus. He stated that most of what passes for legitimate entertainment is inferior or foolish and only caters or exploits people's weaknesses. And 2,000 years later today, we are still in search of good, legitimate entertainment. And maybe it's because we are I love this phrase homo ludens, the playing humans. So do you think, is there a way to reconcile our playful spirit and the serious business of climate? What are the tactics here?
Speaker 4:oh, I don't know.
Speaker 4:See, I mean, I I do think that sort of comedy and humor is so important and I think actually we've probably not started to to kind of dig deep enough into how we can use comedy to support, sort of the changes needed for climate.
Speaker 4:I mean mean, if you think about a show like the Last Leg on Channel 4, which is a sort of comedy show that's done a huge amount to sort of counter attitudes around disability, and I'd love to sort of see us being a bit braver with our sort of comedy to try and see if there's ways of working. And, of course, you know, don't look up you know really effective kind of use of comedy to sort. Of course, you know, don't look up you know really effective kind of use use of comedy to sort of, you know, um, try and try and start a climate conversation. And I think what was also clever with that is that sort of when netflix kind of launched it, they made sure they had a really big sort of impact campaign that went alongside it. So, um, were they oh, I'm trying to remember which was the, the ngo that they were working with to sort of, but they did a lot of engagement with audiences, which I think was really very, very effective. So you know, yeah, we love foolish things, don't we?
Speaker 3:We love being stupid, we love comedy, and I think that's great yeah, and sadly I do find on on sustainability issues, nature, climate and there's like quite a lot of comedy material to work with steve, sadly, but there is there really is.
Speaker 4:Have you seen? Have you seen the recent? There's been a sort of campaign, hasn't there, with scientists teaming up with comedians on youtube to sort of. So the scientist sort of you know tells you what the climate crisis is and the comedian sort of you know tells you what the climate crisis is and the comedian sort of puts it in everyday language. And these have been really effective, I think, at kind of getting little messages across.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant. Well listen, steve, we're just about out of time, so we've got one final question for you, which is our network of agencies is ironically called Do Not Smile, because we passionately believe that we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world with a little bit of comedy. So my question is what object, place or person always makes you smile?
Speaker 4:oh my god, what object place, a person um place I? I have literally just come back from the lake district, and being in the lake district just makes me smile. For me, being in nature is so important. You know, I spent the first half of my life living in cities and towns and I could never go back to just sort of living in. You know, for me I have to be surrounded by nature and I think it's so important that we kind of have to connect climate and biodiversity. You know, we talk a lot about climate change, we don't always talk enough about biodiversity and again, it's one of those things that the TV industry, I think, is slowly waking up to. You know, when we film in nature, what's our impact? How do we sort of make sure we authentically portray nature correctly on screen? So for me it has to be. You know, being in nature makes me smile.
Speaker 3:Brilliant, absolutely. What a has to be smart. You know, being in nature makes me smile. Brilliant, absolutely. What a perfect way to end our conversation. Um, steve, that's been brilliant. Now everybody knows about albert, which is the first time it's popped up on our podcast, and it needed to get out there. And we'll all go to youtube and watch scientists and comedians teaming up.
Speaker 2:Um, so damla over to you closes up so thanks to everyone who has listened to our Good Guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile network of agencies.
Speaker 3:Make sure you listen to future episodes, where we'll be talking to more amazing people like Steve about how we can work together to create a more sustainable future. So see you, steve, see you, damla. Thanks a lot, bye.
Speaker 2:Bye. Good Guys A podcast series on sustainability. Bye.
