GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
The Creative Truth, with Amelia Hapsari
How can documentaries shape societal change and inspire justice? Join us for a great conversation with Amelia Hapsari, a trailblazer in Southeast Asian and Indonesian documentary filmmaking.
Amelia shares with us her dedication to creating documentaries that not only expose truths but also deeply engage and entertain viewers. Discover how her work aims to see more films produced that foster inclusivity and justice, promoting meaningful societal change, including on climate change.
She also talks with us about coalitions with civil society, connecting with the international film industry and enhancing local films to meet truly global standards.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good Geist, a podcast series on sustainability hosted by Damla Özler and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello everyone, you are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Damla from Mira Agency, istanbul, and.
Speaker 3:This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester. This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
Speaker 2:So in this episode we're going to talk to the one and only Amelia Hapsari, the guardian angel of Indonesian and Southeast Asian documentaries and creative impact. A director and producer herself, amelia is the framework change and communication leader of Ashoka Indonesia.
Speaker 3:And Damla is very excited, very excited to talk to Amelia. You've been just as a bit of extra background for our listeners. You've been program director of INDOX, helping Asian documentaries to flourish, and a member of Global Impact Producers, and you're all about change making and creativity, aren't you, amelia? So it's wonderful to have you here on the podcast. Thanks for talking to Damla and myself.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thank you so much, guys, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2:Amelia, as Steve said, I am so excited because I really love the work you do and it's great to have you with us today here and, frankly, I'm a bit starstruck. So I'm sorry for that, steve. Let's start with your journey. You have been a pillar in the documentary arena of Southeast Asia and Indonesia for a long time, and your primary focus has been on education and rights movements and, of course, lately, the climate crisis and its impact, because it happens everywhere, all at once and in every issue. So how did this journey begin? I mean, how did your creative energy flow into the impact making channel?
Speaker 4:Yes. So I initially, you know, I finished high school in 97. And initially I was thinking that I want to go to the advertising industry. At the time the commercial TV channels just came to my hometown several years, so I thought, you know, I want to be, you know, creating all of these. I thought, you know, I want to be, you know, creating all of these ads, you know.
Speaker 4:But then in 1998 something big really happened in Indonesia the, the dictator that we have had for 32 years, stepped down and following not following prior to a series of crisis that hurt a lot of Chinese Indonesians. A lot of Chinese Indonesian shops have been robbed and there were rape cases of Chinese Indonesian women. So it seemed like, you know, the Pandora box that has been kind of rued by the old regime, that the Chinese Indonesians were plundering the economy. We were basically creating the inequality in Indonesia was kind of fueling people to, you know and focusing the hatred towards Chinese Indonesian. And you know, I'm Chinese-Indonesian and I've lived, you know, and seen this lie. You know a lot. Like you know, yes, some huge Chinese-Indonesian business conglomerates have been kind of collaborating with the regime and creating massive profit. Kind of collaborating with the regime and creating massive profit. But the majority of Chinese Indonesians were regular citizens and they were discriminated against because of this brand that was placed upon us.
Speaker 4:And I thought you know, so I switched my dream. I want to become a documentary filmmaker because I want to. And I thought you know, so I switch my dream. I want to become a documentary filmmaker because I want to participate in the democratic movement creating Indonesia that is more open, that is more inclusive and that is gearing towards change, towards better change, Not just for the Chinese Indonesians, but for everyone. And you know there are still, until now, very few, I think, Chinese Indonesians participating in the change, although there are. But I want to walk alongside my colleagues, you know, for for a more fair, just and now you know, sustainable indonesia. So that's, that's, um, that's how it started and um. I've been focusing on documentary films ever since amazing.
Speaker 3:So, amelia, um, well, I I'm with you on the advertising front. When I was a kid, that's all I wanted to do, because adverts were just so shiny and exciting and full of energy and they were all short, which helped my attention span. And then I suddenly realized I couldn't go into advertising because ethically it would just be the biggest compromise ever so. But if you want to make some ads, just let us know, and damon and I both have agencies, so hey, let's work together, make some ads, um. So my question, amelia, is about um, you've been both a producer and a director of films, haven't you? And they covered lots of different topics and, and obviously, as a documentary maker, you're getting to the truth of a, an issue, but also have to balance that with creativity. So how, what's your approach on that, that sort of creativity and getting to the truth of an issue that you're covering?
Speaker 4:yes, so basically, my motto has always been if we are not creative enough, the truth will not get to the audience and will not have impact. So you know, documentary filmmaking is a very hard job. Like you know, there are very few resources and we worked a lot, you know. So if we were going to put in that much effort to tell the truth, it better be good, it better be creative, it better have impact. There is no point making, I think, making documentaries for the sake of just making documentaries. So yeah, so that's how I balance that. It has to be attractive also for the audience to see.
Speaker 2:Well, you just gave us the hints for my next question, but I really want to underline the message and follow this thinking path we initiated when you want to make an impact and make a change, make the change happen through a documentary. How do you think your line of profession can make a difference here? How can documentaries play a role in making the change happen? Not only showing the truth, but more than that.
Speaker 4:Very, very hugely. Let me give an example of a documentary made by my colleague from the Philippines, baby Rose Filarama, colleague from the philippine, baby ruse philorama. Her documentary is sunday beauty queen and it's given a light on the, you know, domestic workers from the philippines in hong kong. And again, you know, to make it interesting she chose this beauty pageant uh, that's um, just for the domestic workers, you know, on sunday, so that that they get to, you know, they get to walk on the catwalk all organized, self-organized by themselves. And this film, you know, went to hot dogs in Canada and, you know, eventually she created this beautiful campaign in her country, won even the best films on that year, more than beating all the fiction films. And eventually she advocated, because of the stature of the film, she was able to talk the policy makers, get help from the embassy so that, you know, the domestic workers can access more legal aid and you know their voice, you know, kind of leveraged that way. At the same time also, I think, bringing the discussion so that you know the relationship between the domestic workers and the families that they serve are more equal.
Speaker 4:So documentaries can definitely play a big role, but it has to be coupled by significant you know also advocacy work, by significant also ad-focusing work, and it has to be a village. The audience also need to create the change. So just making a beautiful documentary is not enough. You need to have the coalition basically around the film and around the issue so that together we can push for change together. So yeah, again I said the film has to be good, but then the good film is not enough. So yeah, that's why this impact and documentary works and the documentary works need to go hand in hand.
Speaker 3:Amelia, you you're juggling so many balls and trying to make so many things fit together in terms of documentary making. Could you tell us a little bit more, then, about that model? Because, um, your approach over these many years has been, in some ways, sort of hacking into the sort of big money filmmaking sector, isn't it? By bringing funding, distribution, support, you create social impact with through partnerships, and that's something that you continued as program director with Ashoka, haven't you? So could you tell us more about that approach and also about the work of Ashoka more generally, what you're doing at the moment?
Speaker 4:yes, thank you, thank you. So. Thank you so much, steve. So it wasn't very easy, because when I stepped in the role in INDOX in 2012, throughout Southeast Asia actually, and actually many parts of the global south, we don't have a strong public broadcasting system public broadcasting system and, like Indonesia, certainly Philippines, vietnam the public broadcasting is like a government mouthpiece that was neglected, largely uncreative, and they are not partnering with independent filmmakers, and so we were unlike in the US or UK, where public broadcasting is strong, although now it's weakening.
Speaker 4:There was always funding right for independent documentaries In Indonesia and all Southeast Asia, except maybe Singapore, but the Singapore funding needs to be aligned with the government agenda. So we are in the situation where nobody helps documentary filmmakers, and if there's no distribution, there's no ways for you to be shown on public channels. There's no more funding. There's no funding either. You know so the distribution and the funding goes hand in hand, and at that time, the documentary films filmmakers need to find festivals, need to organize community screenings on their own. You know so there's got to be a hack on this, and I was really lucky at that time. Actually, I think the Guta Institute did this six years program when all of the Southeast Asian documentary filmmakers gather and talk and get to know each other, and we all talk about the same thing the funding and the distribution that is not there in our region. So I set this as my goal to crack this, and we do it in two ways, or actually, yeah, two ways. One, we need to connect with the international industry. Right, because the international industry has available money right now. Right, uh, it's, it's declining, but still there, it's still there. And then, second, we need to connect more with the impact site, because the impact site also has some funding, because they want when, when people want to create impact, they want the films, they want the communication strategies, right, so we need to go into this two uh opportunities together, uh, to get the both uh, you know, so that the films can be good enough again needs to have resources, and so that the distribution can go.
Speaker 4:Two ways One is the international distribution, which can then lead to perhaps a national distribution. If your film is famous abroad, you know, why won't Indonesia show it, you know? And the second is also the impact, which is the community screening, the advocacy work and, you know, et cetera needs to be done as well to elevate the issue, to get more people to care about the film and the issue. But in order to get the international funding, the film has to be international standard, and our filmmakers at that time were not used to work for international standard because they used to work on their own with very, very little resources, you know. So that's why, initially, I created the Dare to Dream Asia together with some of the most famous international producers. One is Ikafe Kalati from Finland and one is Don Epkins from South Africa. They have work they've done before, a global series work with filmmakers from all around the globe, get the you know, improve the quality and then get the broadcasters to buy them. Basically. And another one I work with Doc Society from the UK to create a good pitch model so that we can again galvanize the support from the impact speed. And, to cut the story short, this has created some results and, of course, it's not enough, still always all the time, because I think that the public broadcasting model is still needed. You know, like independents working to get you know both everywhere is hard all the time. It can work for some films, not for every films. And oh, okay, and again Ashoka.
Speaker 4:So after I've done, you know, this for more than eight years, I realized that I need to also work with the audience and not just the industry, because if the audience are not used to watch films, watch documentaries, especially because there's no public television, then how can they become open?
Speaker 4:And I also need to work more with the change-making movement. Then you know how can they become open. You know, and I also need to work more with the change-making movement that Ashoka is creating with the families and young people, in order for them to see that creativity, storytelling is amazing, to help your children to grow, not only to spark their imagination, but also to instill agency so that they want to participate in creating a better world. And yes, I must say the work that Ashoka is doing in Indonesia is amazing because we work with the ecosystem of growing up years for children and young people. So, in one way it's working with families and, second, working with schools to cultivate change-making mindset and skills, which means empathy, collaboration, leadership and also the belief, I guess, that change is possible. And I'm bringing my storytelling background, connecting some of the films. We create monthly screening programs where the families can join in.
Speaker 3:Every month we program one film that is open for the public for one month and at the same time I work also with children, story writers and illustrators to create books and also next is to create animation on the stories of change makers well, just one quick follow-up for me on that then, amelia, because I'm uh, I'm struck by the point you made there about creativity, um and all of the change-making organizations that you work with, and we've we spoke to um, an activist uh on the podcast a little while ago from south korea who's connecting sort of rights movements across the uh, and we did a project with the Philippines on comic art and how comic art was being used to creatively explore political issues. Do you find, with all of the NGOs and civil society organizations you work with, that creativity is a way to explore some of these issues that maybe mainstream broadcasting doesn't cover.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, absolutely, and right now, yes, with the social media and the decline of the public broadcasting, it becomes difficult. Right, because it's easier. If the public broadcasting is still strong and our children still watch public broadcasting, I think it's much better situation. But now, with the social media, a lot of the eyeballs and screen time is spent there and there were so many, uh, there's so many content. That's unnecessaryes. But then there were also creators that, like you said, like the komika, all the stand-up comedians. There are all different kinds of creators, including some of mothers. You know mom creators.
Speaker 2:They create great stuff, so that's also potential collaborations there great stuff, so that's also potential collaborations there, and I am uh hung up on the point that you made. Two points actually. One is the storytelling part and the other one is, uh, the cash part. So, uh, it is amazing how everything comes together and creates one big narrative for us too.
Speaker 2:Steve and I started this podcast in the beginning of this year and we had amazing guests and everything they say from different countries, different backgrounds, but everything they say comes up to a big narrative and shows us the way how to make change happen, because just two programs ago, we were talking about placemaking and Maria and her big question was who's got the cash? And now we are talking to you about inducing creativity in Paris, and now we're again talking about this and how to make this change happen with different sources of cash. So that always amazes me, but I'm not going to ask anything about this one. I just want to amplify this. I want to ask about what you have also mentioned Dare to Dream. In 2015, indox co-created Dare to Dream, and this is a very, very powerful call. And through Dare to Dream Asia, asian talents were supported with international mentorship and funding that can help the global distribution of their projects. What's the missing part in daring or dreaming before this call? What do you think?
Speaker 4:And what was the impact of this? Initially? Again, I think funding is, of course, non-existent, right, what I mean with funding is the regularity you know, like in the West, or you know, in the US or UK, every state, you know they have a regular funding for arts and you know, and the public broadcasting also has regular avenues. And at that time, the huge uh missing link was the you know, the funding and distribution. Um, what is your next question? And how, how it create? Um, yeah, so, um, it's not immediate. Uh, dare to dream in in 2015, despite the huge excitement, both from the international mentors, because they were delighted to see stories that were so different, that were, you know, not. You know, if you live in the West, your imagination of, you know, southeast Asia is defined right by the West. Your imagination of Southeast Asia is defined by the media. What a little bit that can come into the New York Times or into Guardian and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:But these filmmakers brought in the Southeast Asia that they see and that they want to present to the world, and this was so refreshing. However, it was so difficult to find the broadcasters at that time, because all the talents were new. They were not known before there's no and then there is not huge money, that will come to kind of be the first, be the first to say, like you know, I believe in this guys and therefore, you know, and there was a lot of hesitation. So in all the selected films they are finished like very slowly, one by one, until I think even the last one was just finished last year, you know, and I think initially the one that was finished was the one from Bhutan, collaboration with Hungary. You know they have a little bit the European side that you know, and then slowly and slowly, and some of the films got then picked up by Good Pitch and get support that way. So all the films were finished one by one.
Speaker 4:But what's amazing is the response from the international festivals. They were, you know, they embraced these films. The films got like 80 or 100, like 80 or a hundred, like you know, film festivals around the world, because they were fresh, they were genuine expression of Southeast Asian filmmakers and until now I always heard that, you know, because of this film made it so and you know, sundance start to, you know, support south asian filmmakers. So they they go and get known and and get um and get impact from from their tenacious work. That's, um. That was not known before, so yeah oh, amelia.
Speaker 3:Well, we, we need more time, damla, that we with we've run out of time, and and it's with your tenacious work yourself, amelia, is making a huge impact. So, um, I'm absolutely amazed by your work and we need more time to talk about good pitch in more depth, so we might have to do another episode of the podcast, um, so we can talk about that more. And I'm also really, really struck by your point about how, in order to get all those eyeballs we want to get looking at things that are going to make change happen, we have to make good work, don't we? It has to be attractive and interesting. Amazing final question, amelia, is um, our network is ironically called do not smile, because we think that sustainability should be a subject that brings happiness into the world. So our last question is what object, place or person always makes you smile?
Speaker 4:that's easy. My kids, you know, yeah, they always make me smile, they bring lots and lots and lots of joy and you know, a lot of the work that I do is, you know, is also thinking of them. That I want them to grow up in a place where you know it's sustainable, when they can see the blue sky still and have all the nature that protects us all, and also I want them to live in a world where creativity can be appreciated, can help all the solutions to spring from all the problems that we face. So, yeah, dare to dream Dare to dream.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Dare to dream.
Speaker 3:Dare to dream Damla, Dare to dream.
Speaker 2:Emilia. Thank you very much for being with us today, and thanks to everyone who has listened to our Good Guys podcast, brought to you by the Do Not Smile Network of Agencies.
Speaker 3:And make sure you listen to future episodes, where we'll be talking to more amazing people like Emilia about how we can work together to create a more sustainable future.
Speaker 1:So, emilia, Damla, see you and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network.
